Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

Ten years ago, I didn't have a hope in hell of rowing a FM @ 1:48.

I didn't have the requisite skills and abilities.

So I could only do 1:54, even though I prepared for it like crazy--endlessly, for thousands of hours.

Once, I rowed a FM every day for two weeks.

No matter.

I still could only pull 1:54.

To row a FM @ 1:48, I needed to row well (13 SPI) at low drag (120 df.).

I didn't.

I rowed like shit (10 SPI) at max drag (200+ df.).

No longer.

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (120 df.).

So now, if I prepare for it, I can row a FM @ 1:48.

In the bag.

ranger

[Fred]

So now, if I prepare for it, I can row a FM @ 1:48.

that's fine, because it clearly shows your acknowledgment that you can not currently (present tense) do it, you are saying that you will be able to do it at some point in the future.

"This is fine.
Sure, I can carry both suitcases, although I never have. I have always just carried one."

This is not fine, you can correct it by stating instead: "I believe I can carry..."

but saying "I can carry.." is a statement about a current present tense ability

Demonstration: If there are 2 suit cases sitting there, and a person boasts to bystanders that "I can carry two suit cases", and a particular bystander says "I dont believe that, they weigh 100lbs each".

1) A troll would not attempt to pick them up, rather he would discourse Ad nauseam on this and that to provoke a response and engage in an argument on the ability of said boaster to pick up two suitcases.
2) A delusional person would attempt to pick them up, and upon failing, would discourse Ad nauseam on the reasons why the failure to pick them up wasnt really a failure at all, but a stunning success. Continuing further with promises to pick up 3 suitcases.

you are #2.

[aharmer]

I would agree that ranger is #2, but a far different definition of such than you gave

[lancs]

You have produced no evidence whatsoever (none) that you 'row well'. None.

Why do you think it is that, despite apparently rowing well, you cannot get past 5k at 1:48 pace?

Does that not seem odd to you?

[ranger]

What puzzles me no end is what in the world other 60s lwts, those who row 2:03 @ 21 spm at UT2 (and the like), pulling 9 SPI, attend to technically when they are training.

They are only taking 2/3 of a stroke!

They are missing 1/3 of what goes into rowing well!

They are willfully rowing like shit, destroying forever, on each stroke, their chances of ever being any good at the sport!

How is that possible?

Would some other 60s lwt who pulls 2:03 @ 21 spm (9 SPI) post a video of your rowing at this rate and pace so that we can see what you are doing so drastically wrong?

Are you short-sliding?

Are you failing to sequence and time your levers?

Are you failing to use your legs?

Or your back?

Or your arms?

Are you firing off at the catch from your heels?

Are you losing contact with the footplate at the finish, remaining on your heels?

What?

What?

Has someone given you some wildly misconceived conception of the rowing stroke?

If so, who?

For a lightweight, rowing well is 1:48 @ 21 spm (13 SPI), fifteen seconds per 500m faster at the same rate.

That's almost 100 watts!

ranger

[ranger]

You have produced no evidence whatsoever (none) that you 'row well'. None.

Perhaps, although a sub-6:30 2K @ 12 SPI without even preparing for it is a good start, no?

That was just half way on my learning curve, though.

I have now done the other half.

Sure.

No evidence yet.

A FM @ 1:48 will be my first little bit of race preparation.

Then it's on to other things!

HM, 60min, 10K, 30min, 6K, 5K, 4 x 2K, 4 x 1K, 30'r20, 1K, 500m, 20 x 500m, 8 x 500m (3:30 rest), etc.

ranger

[lancs]

The 6:30 was a hwt row. You pulled a lwt 7:11 if I remember rightly.

There is also no evidence this was done at '12 spi', not that it matters.

You're a slower rower than you used to be.

You ignored the end of my last post. Do you not think it odd that despite your rowing well, you cannot get past 5k at 1:48 pace?

[Mike Caviston]

Ten years ago, at 40, Mike C. pulled 6:18. Now, at 50, he pulls 6:36. And where does that leave him?

Better off than someone who went from 6:28 to 7:02 during the same time frame. Not too bad, considering I only get on the erg 3-4 times a week with a fraction of the volume as during my peak. Certainly getting a lot more bang for my training buck than Mr. 20K-A-Day, who registers for races, drives hundreds of miles to venues, goes through warm-ups, but can’t actually compete. Did you at least stop off for some ribs at the Montgomery Inn when you were in Cincinnati, so the trip wasn’t a total waste of time? And of course you completely chickened out of going to Chicago. I was in town on business that week anyway, so I figured what the heck. And it was a nice warm-up for this:
http://www.lungchicago.org/site/files/4 ... 4_oall.txt

Hey, since we're talking about declining performances – for someone who was a marathon runner for 25 years and completed thirty 2:50 marathons (6:30 per mile), your run times when you were the age I am now are pretty sad. I’m doing way better, and I’ve never even run a marathon. I didn’t run much at all from 35-45 years old, and now I only get to twenty miles on a good week.

Ranger:
Big Ten Run (10MI), Oct 24 1998, age 47
1:16:45 (7:41 per mile)
Dexter-Ann Arbor 10K, May 26 2001, age 50
47:44 (7:42)
Dexter-Ann Arbor Half Marathon, May 28 1994, age 43
1:56:49 (8:55) (OUCH!)

MC:
Coronado 10K, Feb 14 2011, age 49
45:22 (7:19)
La Jolla Half Marathon, April 17 2011, age 49
1:42:49 (7:51)
Coronado Low Tide Ride & Stride (8.2MI), June 19 2011, age 50
57:56 (7:04)

Any chance you can remember the date and location of one of those 2:50 marathons? And here’s a question I’ve always wanted to ask: being that you were a lifetime runner, swimmer, skater, cyclist, canoest, etc. and exercise hours a day without getting sick or stale or taking days off – how come you weighed 195 pounds when you took up indoor rowing and had to lose 30 pounds to compete as a lightweight?

Well, that’s enough time wasted for one evening. Here’s hoping the regular clowns around here can come up with some original material instead of answering the same old Ranger crap with the same idiotic responses.

Oh wait, one more thing: Hey Ranger, why don’t you get in touch with USRowing regarding your brilliant 20-point training plan? I’m sure they’d make room for you on next year’s convention schedule:
http://www.usrowing.org/Libraries/Event ... .sflb.ashx

[hjs]

Ten years ago, at 40, Mike C. pulled 6:18. Now, at 50, he pulls 6:36. And where does that leave him?

Better off than someone who went from 6:28 to 7:02 during the same time frame. Not too bad, considering I only get on the erg 3-4 times a week with a fraction of the volume as during my peak. Certainly getting a lot more bang for my training buck than Mr. 20K-A-Day, who registers for races, drives hundreds of miles to venues, goes through warm-ups, but can’t actually compete. Did you at least stop off for some ribs at the Montgomery Inn when you were in Cincinnati, so the trip wasn’t a total waste of time? And of course you completely chickened out of going to Chicago. I was in town on business that week anyway, so I figured what the heck. And it was a nice warm-up for this:
http://www.lungchicago.org/site/files/4 ... 4_oall.txt

Hey, since we're talking about declining performances – for someone who was a marathon runner for 25 years and completed thirty 2:50 marathons (6:30 per mile), your run times when you were the age I am now are pretty sad. I’m doing way better, and I’ve never even run a marathon. I didn’t run much at all from 35-45 years old, and now I only get to twenty miles on a good week.

Ranger:
Big Ten Run (10MI), Oct 24 1998, age 47
1:16:45 (7:41 per mile)
Dexter-Ann Arbor 10K, May 26 2001, age 50
47:44 (7:42)
Dexter-Ann Arbor Half Marathon, May 28 1994, age 43
1:56:49 (8:55) (OUCH!)

MC:
Coronado 10K, Feb 14 2011, age 49
45:22 (7:19)
La Jolla Half Marathon, April 17 2011, age 49
1:42:49 (7:51)
Coronado Low Tide Ride & Stride (8.2MI), June 19 2011, age 50
57:56 (7:04)

Any chance you can remember the date and location of one of those 2:50 marathons? And here’s a question I’ve always wanted to ask: being that you were a lifetime runner, swimmer, skater, cyclist, canoest, etc. and exercise hours a day without getting sick or stale or taking days off – how come you weighed 195 pounds when you took up indoor rowing and had to lose 30 pounds to compete as a lightweight?

Well, that’s enough time wasted for one evening. Here’s hoping the regular clowns around here can come up with some original material instead of answering the same old Ranger crap with the same idiotic responses.

Oh wait, one more thing: Hey Ranger, why don’t you get in touch with USRowing regarding your brilliant 20-point training plan? I’m sure they’d make room for you on next year’s convention schedule:
http://www.usrowing.org/Libraries/Event ... .sflb.ashx

Why do all facts always bit the nutty pro in the ass?

[ranger]

A nice goal for my OTW sprinting this year, I think, would be to get to 7.5 SPI @ 34 spm for 1K.

That's 1:50 pace.

For 120 strokes?

My technical goal is 8 SPI and I think that, eventaully, I might be able to rate as high as 36 spm for 1K, but 7.5 SPI @ 34 spm would be a good stepping stone to that target.

8 SPI @ 36 spm is 1:46 pace.

If the best 60s rowers are able to do about 2:00 pace for 5K, 1:50 for 1K should be a limit.

It would be difficult for a 60s rower to break 1:50 for 1K OTW.

Even at 15 seconds over erg times, 1:50 @ 34 spm OTW for 1K is the equivalent of 1:35 @ 34 spm for 1K OTErg.

3:10 at 12 SPI

ranger

[ranger]

Hey, since we're talking about declining performances – for someone who was a marathon runner for 25 years and completed thirty 2:50 marathons (6:30 per mile), your run times when you were the age I am now are pretty sad. I’m doing way better, and I’ve never even run a marathon. I didn’t run much at all from 35-45 years old, and now I only get to twenty miles on a good week.

No, I didn't run 25 FMs at 2:50.

2:50 was my best.

I was under 3:00 ten times or so.

I did these runs when I was in my 20s and 30s, though.

As I have mentioned, I had achilles tendon problems when I was in my 40s.

That's why I finally gave up running and took up rowing when I was 50.

I don't run at all now--and feel much better for it.

ranger

[ranger]

In my 20s and 30s, I ran the local marathon with my track club at Allerton Park in Mahomet, IL, two or three times; Crawfordsville, IN a couple of times; Chicago, three times?; the Mayfair marathon in Milwaukee a couple of times; the Lakefront Marathon in Milwaukee, three or four times; Drake once; etc.

Sure, at my best, I ran 2:50.

Despite the age of these results, someone here on the forum found one of my 2:50 results on-line.

Once, I finished in the top 10 or so at the Mayfair Marathon in Milwaukee.

As I remember, I ran in the _first_ Chicago Marathon.

That was fun.

At my best, I ran 34:00 for 10K on the road.

45:45 for 8 miles; 1:16 for a HM.

I could run 2:00 for a half mile, 4:20 for a mile.

All of this is _very_ modest.

I don't really have the build of a runner.

My body type (and balance between upper body, core, and lower body strength) is much closer to a rower than a runner.

I was also a swimmer--a freestyle sprinter.

I was also a skater and canoeist.

ranger

[ben990]

Wow, you are a great all-around athlete, maybe the best ever?

And now you can row a 2K in 7:03 OTE. Fait accompli

[ranger]

Beautiful cadence now at 27 spm, 1:42-1:44 pace, depending on how well I am rowing, I suspect, over long distances, at top-end UT1.

1:42.5 is 12 SPI.

If this is indeed top-end UT1, eventually, I should be able to do it for a HM.

That would be cool.

1:42 is Tore Foss's long-standing 50s hwt HM WR.

As I mentioned before, 27 spm is the ideal rate for my everyday rowing.

If I push it a bit, raising the rate to 30 spm, I am going along at 5K pace and AT.

If I ease off to 24 spm, I am going along at FM pace and UT2.

27 spm stands right at the midpoint of this range of rates that are used in distance trials: FM, HM, 60min, 10K, 30min, 6K, 5K.

Perfect.

BTW, another round of thanks to Byron.

My better finishes are now helping my rowing significantly, both OTW and OTErg.

I have reduced the my layback at the finish, trading this slower and weaker alternative for faster hands and feet, working in unison, braced against a more upright posture.

ranger

[ranger]

Wow, you are a great all-around athlete, maybe the best ever?

No, not at all.

My accomplishments in other sports were very modest, although I was indeed a multi-sport athlete all of my life.

I didn't find my best sport until I was 50 years old.

And sure, when all is said and done, perhaps as early as this year, I think I might indeed turn out to be the best erger for my age and weight, bar none.

6:16 at 60 would be _wildly_ unprecedented.

It would redefine age and weight standards in the sport by a factor of 50%.

Decline with age in the sport would be revised from a second per year over 2K after 20 to less than .5 seconds per year over 2K after 20.

In the heavyweight ranks, that would open the way for a 5:50 2K at 50, a 5:55 2K at 60, and a 6:00 2K at 70.

ranger