Age-Related Performance Decline

[jliddil]

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/95/5/2152

Just a more general article about aging and exercise and decline in performance

[Byron Drachman]

Byron,

Weren't you a professor of math or science or engineering? I appreciate the sentiment about striving to slow down as slowly as possible and existential acceptance.

But with your training, can't you give me a number--0.XX seconds/500 pace per year is the average decline? Is there no ergometric North Star to guide my navigation into senility?

Hi Tom,

I was a mathematics professor and I also had a degree in engineering. My PhD was in pure mathematics (algebraic topology) but I also had a strong interest in applied mathematics and numerical analysis. I wrote some papers in fluid dynamics, dynamical systems, algebra, algebraic topology, numerical analysis, optimization, special functions in physics, and electromagnetics. One could say that I was a jack of all trades, master of none.

I didn't keep any data, but I can see a trend. I've almost been holding even on the erg since I've been improving my technique. In fact, I just saw an improvement the last few days after making a change to my C2 so it is not always a downhill slide. My main interest in the ergometer is exercise, not training, so I haven't done much in the way of timed pieces. Well, last year I did a marathon and got the world record, but please don't ask how many people in my group (skinny geezers, 70-79) do that event. I enjoy Xeno Muller's DVDs a lot, and I enjoy doing interval workouts with Xeno. I can loosely keep track of how I am doing because I know how fast I go when I am doing intervals with Xeno.

I never take a day completely off, but I am capable of doing a very easy recovery workout.

Here is what rowing means to me:

http://www.row2k.com/potd/index.cfm?id=714

Byron

[TomR]

Byron,

I knew you had mathematical knowledge. But apparently not about aging and an average decline in erg times. Oh well.

I assume that is your wooden boat. I have a shell made of plastic or fiberglass or some such. I am still trying to teach it to track in a straight line.

Tom

[Byron Drachman]

Byron,

I knew you had mathematical knowledge. But apparently not about aging and an average decline in erg times. Oh well.

I assume that is your wooden boat. I have a shell made of plastic or fiberglass or some such. I am still trying to teach it to track in a straight line.

Tom

Hi Tom,
Yes, it is a wooden boat. It is the love of my life. It is a '76 Staempfli and I like the feeling of wooden boats and wooden spoons. I do row in plastic boats and use modern oars sometimes.
Byron

[jamesg]

some benchmark, some average, some number that does rough justice to the sort of decline one might likely see, if one were merely average, a sort of grade-C erging being

I've lost 10% Wattage over 500, 2k and 30' pulls from 2003 (when age 63) to now, so around -1.5% a year average W, -0.5% speed/y. Data from nonathlon and C2 log page.

I pulled from 700k in slower years to 1400 km in 2009. 1000km represents roughly 1% of total 24*365 time, so hardly seismic. However in summer I add at least twice as much MTB time as rowing.

Using the C2uk Interactive in 09 and optimistically asking for a Level 4, 6 x 26wk plan, even tho my week may last 10 days, was more effective than the L3, 5wo plans I used in the past, apparently due to the extra mileage.

[NavigationHazard]

The 4 watts/year on average from the Seiler et al. study is probably as good/bad as any other metric....

[KevJGK]

The 4 watts/year on average from the Seiler et al. study is probably as good/bad as any other metric....

Nav

Is there a consensus as to the age we can expect the decline to commence?

[NavigationHazard]

No. Depends on your performance peak, which is a function of your training and skill vis-a-vis your calendar age vis-a-vis your genetic potential. Start erging/rowing at age 40, for example, muck around in desultory fashion in gyms for a few years, acquire your own erg and a coach and an OTW program you're training for at 45, decide at 47 that you want to win Masters' Nationals and medal at Crash-Bs, and you might not hit your performance peak until you're approaching 50. Just because you're older doesn't automatically mean you have only downside.

The other thing is, most people who are (say) 45 can't make the commitment to training that's possible when you're (say) 22. Not only do you tend to acquire other priorities in life, as you enter middle age it becomes increasingly difficult to recover from hard workouts. You can't do what you once did as often as you did it (door opened for lewd jokes). This exacerbates other factors associated with a general decline in performance.

[leadville]

I agree w Nav; there are multiple factors that likely have more to do w decline than general physiological trends.

That said, and realizing some folks want something more concrete, the evidence indicates a decline in cardiovascular abilities begins in the early to mid-thirties, and the decline steepens around fiftyfive. see http://jp.physoc.org/content/586/1/55.full

Specific to OTW and erg rowing, the major contributor to the decline may be a decrease in power output at lactate threshold, followed by a decline in maximal oxygen uptake.

In addition to the cardiovascular issues, there appears to be a decline in the number of muscle fibers that begins around fifty (so much for the golden years). see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19001883

That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

[mikvan52]

(door opened for lewd jokes).

Lewd jokes? .. Where, where??



Seriously:
What Nav says about dedication of the graying crowd and the sacrifices you have to make to stay close to your best is so true.
I'm in my 58th year now and am exploring my training diary numbers for signs of the decline. I think I see them (but I laugh in their faces )

Some people seem to be able to adjust quite well:
Look at WR holder Dick Cashin... Every 5 years he comes back to Crash-B's and picks up a new WR... Reportedly, to prepare, he rows 3 days a week... hard sessions only. Evidently, rest is a major ingredient of what this accomplished rower has incorporated into his routine. He respects what it means to be 55, to give his aging bod' the opportunity to recover.

[Yankeerunner]

The obvious strategy is to see how much you can minimize the decline, and accept the decline as part of the journey to be enjoyed as much as possible.

That has been my goal for many years. And I have come to learn that the acceptance of the decline is an important factor in the process. The enjoyment part of it is a bit more nebulous.

Bob S.

"You do what you can for as long as you can, and when you finally can't, you do the next best thing. You back up but you don't give up." --Chuck Yeager (first man to fly through the sound barrier, in the X-1, on October 14, 1947)

BTW Byron, it would be great to see you at CRASH-Bs some year and have you hang out with the rest of us who tend to get together there and gab the day away after our races. You're a can of corn.

[chgoss]

Byron,

Weren't you a professor of math or science or engineering?

I was a mathematics professor and I also had a degree in engineering. My PhD was in pure mathematics (algebraic topology) but I also had a strong interest in applied mathematics and numerical analysis. I wrote some papers in fluid dynamics, dynamical systems, algebra, algebraic topology, numerical analysis, optimization, special functions in physics, and electromagnetics.

Well that explains why I was having trouble following the "paradox" discussion

here is what "paradox" means to me:

[Bob S.]

He respects what it means to be 55, to give his aging bod' the opportunity to recover.

This season, I have stuck strictly to doing my workouts only on alternate days to give a full day of recovery in between. I still do a daily 10' wake up row, but that is not in the same league as a workout. My feeling is that I have been on the right track in doing this. Of course it is hard to judge what difference an additional 30 years would make.

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

Well that explains why I was having trouble following the "paradox" discussion :D

here is what "paradox" means to me:

One of them is really two docks at a right angle to one another. Does this make it orthodox?

Bob S.

[TomR]

Yes, it is a wooden boat. It is the love of my life.

Either you are not married, or you are confident that your wife is not going to read this thread.