help with 3x2 K and other longer intervals

[philwhite7]

Excellent input as always Ian.

Last night I did the 3K, 2.5K, 2K for the first time and it was horrible! I agree with you the lactic acid buildup is one of the main challenges. I completed each of these sessions at my target 5K pace, so a 1.48 500 meter split. Started to get "the burn" in my legs about halfway through the 2.5K.

I kept the stroke rate at 25 for the 3K and 2.5 K, and until about 750M to go in the 2K, when I had to up the rating to keep pace. I always find it hard to not panic when my legs are burning. The temptation is to either:

1) shorten the stroke and rely on upper body power

or

2) get off the erg and vow to never use it again

Thankfully I toughed it out.

Do you find yourself in a similar position with the longer intervals and endurance pieces?

How are your shorter intervals coming along? Is it challenging for you to work on speed and endurance in the same training cycle?

Phil

[iain]

Do you find yourself in a similar position with the longer intervals and endurance pieces?

Congratulations on toughing out the session. As Pete reckons this is done at >5k pace, it should give you good confidence for the 5k, best of luck.

I have had a lot less trouble with 3,2.5,2k than with the 4 x 2k (yet to complete one with all 4 under target). I have a high pain threshold and so get bothered less by the pain of lactate, at the time, in anything over 1k than most. Lactic acid does reduce my strength and I have finished intervals on barely 1/4 slide as my legs are almost paralysed, but the pain isn't an issue itself. afterwards I have been in agony with nausea sometimes lasting 8 hours, but this is too late to effect the result. I do, however, find that the CV gets tough and I struggle to maintain the rating despite needing to increase it as my strength fails.

My real issue is the mental fight. Somehow, I can approach the waterfall a single piece at a time. For the 3k, getting to 40% of the session is a large enough part that, together with knowing the others are shorter, I can push on. Then I really notice how much quicker I reach the milestones (i.e. set fractions of the interval) in the other intervals and that spurs me on. In the 4x2k, I find that the second takes a lot of mental drive to keep going. Then the 3rd is only half-way which is really demoralising and I have been known to slow in that one. For the shorter distances I concentrate on the penultimate as the hardest (may be 6th of the 500s) due to the boost in the last interval of knowing I only have the meters on the clock to go. On the 2k, when I tried this to get me through the 3rd interval, I found the final 2k too long and didn't feel easier. This might have been just the 2k dread from TTs? I don't know.

I hope my demons are not contagious!

How are your shorter intervals coming along? Is it challenging for you to work on speed and endurance in the same training cycle?

I am struggling after only training occassionally for 4 months and am 6S/500m below where I was. I found that the PPC helped to improve my endurance and speed greatly. I just found the middle distances getting left behind. This might be from too many long intervals done at below target, or it might be my mental point above. Pete (as well as most if not all of the best ergers) has immense mental drive and it is possible that he under estimates how hard some of us find staying in the hurt box. In PPC as in the 5k plan, Pete mainly stayed on intervals of 1800 or less. This is a distance it is easier to push as the end is noticably closer when the hard part starts (some 500m or so in usually). The difference between 1300 to go and 4500 should not be underestimated, even if the erger is tired from previous intervals in the former case.

Sorry for wittering on, hope there is some useful food for thought in all the dross.

Now do the 5k that you know that you can achieve.

Happy New Year

Iain

[PaulG]

Let me know how you get on with your training. Do you have a time goal in mind?

Phil
/

Phil:
It's always dangerous to state goals in public but here I go. First let's start with where I am after my first complete year of serious training:
52 YO LWT
500: 1:36.8
1000: 3:29.1
2000: 7:18.1
Interestingly I had faster times a few months ago for the 500 and 1000 when I was a very light HWT. These times are fast enough to get me ranked relatively high in the appropriate LWT 50-59 rankings. However your ranking is often a function of who bothers to submit a time. A better way is to compare yourself to the current world records for your age and weight class. My current PBs put me within 88-87% of the WRs on a speed basis meaning when the world record holder is finished I am 88-87% done. I would like to be within 90% of the world record holders for my age and weight class. These goals would be:
500: 1:33.6
1000: 3:23.7
2000: 7:07.9
5000: 18:39

That's a long way to go. I will take a few weeks off and then start again probably on the PP. Last year I did the interactive UK plan and would like to try a continous training method. I may have to train more than 3-4 times a week.

[philwhite7]

Paul,

The second set of target times seem realistic if you stick to a continuous plan like the PP and push yourself during each session. I think that you can make significant progress with the 3-4 sessions a week you say you've been doing/are going to do. Small continuous improvements will get you to your goals.

While I know that more frequent erging sessions would benefit my times, constraints (job, family - the usual) mean that up until now I've been doing just three sessions per week (5K PP Lite). I do a total-body free weights workout twice a week, and the past couple of weeks have added in a fourth erg session. This has been a steady state piece of 8 to 10K at 24 SPM. Hopefully doing four sessions per week instead of three will start paying dividends.

Let us know how your training goes, especially when you meet or surpass one of your PB goals.

Phil

[philwhite7]

Did a 6x1K last night with one minute rest between sets. My average 500m pace was 1.45.5, which bodes well for a 5K test. Nothing Earth-shattering in terms of time, but better than recent training would suggest.

After comments from Pete Marston and others on their average SPM for the 5K on a UK forum topic that I've linked to below (Pete says his 5K PB was at 31-32 SPM for the 5K, Nick Rockliff was at 30 SPM), I upped my SPM from 26 to 28.

I think this made it possible to surpass my target pace of a 1.46 average for the session. I will try upcoming sessions (4 x 2K, 5 x 1500 etc) at 28 SPM and see how it goes for a couple of weeks, and then try a 5K test.

How's everyone else's 5K training going?

Link to UK forum topic:

http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... =4&t=19112

[iain]

Managed a 5k 3S/500m slower than I was at when I eased off training (as opposed to 6S slower when I started back), some 18S off my PB, but imporatantly managed to do this at a consistant pace. So slow progress, but definite progress. Unfortunately hurt a rib beasting myself after handling down, so 2 paces forward, now one back.

- Iain

[philwhite7]

Nice work on the time trial Iain. Sounds like you're making good progress coming back. Hopefully the injury won't sideline you for too long. I'm going to bang out a longer interval session and hard distance piece this weekend, then a sprint session midweek (8x500, 3.30 rest 2k - 3 secs). Then taper off to a 5K test the following weekend.