Proper technique

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » April 30th, 2008, 3:52 pm

michaelb wrote:I can't remember the instructions as to how to fix that, but it should be listed on the concept2 site under information or support for the PM.

Your times listed there are physically impossible.

It's documented here http://www.concept2.co.uk/monitor/troubleshooting.php

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » April 30th, 2008, 4:34 pm

Citroen wrote:
PaulS wrote: You should make sure to update your PM3 to the latest firmware for it. Then download the log card utility from C2, that will allow you to upload all the log card workouts directly to your online log book.
Er, wrong way round.

The V6 logcard utility includes the firmware updater, as long as the PM3 is newer than V88 of the firmware (V90 came out in Nov 2005) it will do the update automagically. It's only on older, pre-cambrian version of PM3 that would need the stand-alone firmware loader to get to V101.

Well spotted Dougie! I tend to keep it up to date so I don't have to remember that sort of thing.

Thanks for pointing out that it is even easier than I suggest....

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » April 30th, 2008, 4:43 pm

michaelb wrote:Jeff, people said this before in the other thread. It is virtually certain that your PM3 is not set to the correct type of rowing machine. So if you a model D, it is set for a model C instead. I can't remember the instructions as to how to fix that, but it should be listed on the concept2 site under information or support for the PM.

Your times listed there are physically impossible.

Yet they seem too slow to be the "Mod C mix-up", that's where I got these entries into my log, all automagically:

2,000M 2:40.5 (00:40.1) 3/6/2008 45 H standard C2Log /
2,000M 2:47.7 (00:41.9) 3/6/2008 45 H standard C2Log /

Verification codes and all.

And as you can imagine, I was not working particularly hard for them.

The only funky bit is that the Stroke Rates were being reported in the 60's, but that's only seen on the recall of the log card and not reported in the online log.

Anyway, let's not crush a new member of the community, it seems he is genuinely trying to join in the fun and deserves a shot at doing so, just as we all did at one time or another.

HeavyA · Post by **HeavyA** » April 30th, 2008, 5:03 pm

I don't know if this helps but, this is the info from my PM3.

Firmware 101

Hardware 461

Serial# 300117477

Datecode 3272007

Model D/E

I went into the system and did the press the change unit 3 times and change display 3 times and it showed that it was set at D/E model

Jeff

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » April 30th, 2008, 5:11 pm

HeavyA wrote:I don't know if this helps but, this is the info from my PM3.

Firmware 101

Hardware 461

Serial# 300117477

Datecode 3272007

Model D/E

I went into the system and did the press the change unit 3 times and change display 3 times and it showed that it was set at D/E model

Jeff

Do you by chance have a digital camera? I'd love to see a shot of the force Curve you are producing at a near 1:00 Pace.

michaelb · Post by **michaelb** » April 30th, 2008, 5:29 pm

If you are posting pictures, I would like to see a picture of the PM3 memory display for one of your rows. Something strange is going on here. Did you buy the rowing machine new from C2? Is there a chance you are rowing on a Model C instead of a D?

Do you feel like you are en elite, world class athlete? The times you are listing are world records, some by a far margin. The 1k at 2:14, so 1:07 pace, just doesn't seem possible to me (for example 2:50.7 is the best verified time by a man this year).

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » April 30th, 2008, 6:03 pm

michaelb wrote: Is there a chance you are rowing on a Model C instead of a D?

A PM3 (or PM4) configured for model D/E won't register a stroke if you mount it on a model C. Doesn't even come alive if you tug the handle when the monitor has powered off

A PM3 (or PM4) configured for model B/C will give spurious results if mounted on a model D (or model E).

I must say that I don't believe the times. Having witnessed Rob MAD Smith pull his World record 42.6 for 300m and World record 13.7 for 100m at the competition I organised, I'd not believe its possible to row anything faster than that for a longer distance.

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » April 30th, 2008, 6:29 pm

PaulS wrote: Anyway, let's not crush a new member of the community, it seems he is genuinely trying to join in the fun and deserves a shot at doing so, just as we all did at one time or another.

Maybe we should and see if we can goad in him to challenging FoyBoy into a 10K race

(it might get me another PR too)

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » April 30th, 2008, 7:03 pm

Nosmo wrote:
PaulS wrote: Anyway, let's not crush a new member of the community, it seems he is genuinely trying to join in the fun and deserves a shot at doing so, just as we all did at one time or another.
Maybe we should and to see if we can goad in him to challenging FoyBoy into a 10K race (it might get me another PR too)

Well, it appears that he is a RowPro'er, so perhaps even an online race.

HeavyA · Post by **HeavyA** » May 1st, 2008, 3:49 am

Paul

Sorry I'm not a rowpro'r, I just mention the rowpro because my rower came with the trial software. As far as the 1K time I can't verify that at this time because the PM3 memory as far as I can find only goes back to the 11th of April but, I will try and do it again. The other times were still in there.

The rower was bought new from C2 in Jan. and I actually had to get a new PM3 in March.

MichealB In my defence I actually find it hard to believe myself but, also In my defence since you brought the question up I was A world class athlete at one point in my life and trained 3 to 4 hours a day. I have been retired for almost 6 years but, muscle has memory.

I don't know if this means anything but, this is what my 2K looked like.

0-1min-1:30,1min-1500m-1:23,1500m-1800m-1:16,1800m-2000m-1:10
Finished stroke 54s/m I believe ave power 645 or watts.

Jeff

Carl Henrik · Post by **Carl Henrik** » May 1st, 2008, 6:04 am

Jeff

Even though you have been a world class athlete and might be again your times are just out there. Should you learn pacing and rowing (unless you were world class rowing athlete) your times would make many giants look like little boys, if not already. It's hard to believe.

The usual story when a big strong guy comes to the erg is the other way around - it turns out he was only big. Not strong in a cardiovascular sense anyhow, although he might become.

Magnus Samuelsson who won world strongest man in 98 did a 500m in 2001 I believe it was . 2m tall, 150kg, as strong as they come, he "only" did 1:15. I don't know how much erging he had done previously but it's very unlikely that any beginner would be stronger than that.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » May 1st, 2008, 11:49 am

HeavyA wrote:
I don't know if this means anything but, this is what my 2K looked like.

0-1min-1:30,1min-1500m-1:23,1500m-1800m-1:16,1800m-2000m-1:10
Finished stroke 54s/m I believe ave power 645 or watts.

Jeff

Were you really taking 54 strokes/minute (almost 1 full stroke cycle per second)? That seems a bit "out there" and does look a lot like the PM3 could be set for Model C on a Model D. I know you have checked it, but this is exactly the type of discrepancy I saw when switched, as mentioned above, and my back to back test 2k's only took 2:47.7 and 2:40.5 respectively. Avg paces 0:41.9 and 0:40.1.

HeavyA · Post by **HeavyA** » May 1st, 2008, 2:59 pm

Paul
I agree, I don't know if that is possible without getting completely crazy. I rowed 12x 500's today and found with a physical count that the most I could get was 43s/m but, most of my rows were 40s/m. I found that when I try to go to fast that the stroke count is all over the place, the front of the rower is actually lifting off the ground and rower is singing very loud. It's not pretty. So having five legit 500's, 2 being short strokes catching at my toes and 40s/m were 1:20 and 1:22. The other three extending my stroke by a full foot(4' stroke) and rowing a 39,40,43s/m. Times were 1:16.3, 1:15.4 and 1:15.8. The only thing that I can verify of course is the clock and the s/m count. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong but doing the 1K your second split should be faster than your first if maintaining your speed.

Jeff

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » May 1st, 2008, 4:39 pm

Well, since the first 500m would start from zero virtual boat speed, if all strokes were exactly a certain pace you are correct, however in practice, flat pacing would result in making up the early defficit with a few extra hard strokes and if the Paces for both 500m segments are the same, they indeed took the same amount of time to complete. (That's the only way the PM can deal with them). i.e. Any 500m segment being reported directly as a split or time will be identical figures.

I'm still curious about the Force Curve that you are producing. Just press the second button from the top on the Right side of the PM and you will have the Force Curve display.

It still sounds as if your PM is in the Model C mode, or is defective. The Force Curve display does not work properly in the former case, in the later it is impossible to tell what it may do.

HeavyA · Post by **HeavyA** » May 2nd, 2008, 3:23 am

I'm guessing that if all things being equal then, the only variable would be technique or timing of the stroke and catch if I understand you properly. I did check out the force curve early on but, I'm not entirely sure I understand. My curve at first was rather flat and elongated so i watched the training dvd that comes with the rower and tried to match their curve. I was able to match their curve by pulling very quickly with the arm portion of the row but, on occassion there was a flat spot after the curve and I could not figure out why.

Jeff