the heel.

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Sean Seamus
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Post by Sean Seamus » March 20th, 2008, 7:57 am

here's my input -

I work hard to keep my heels down completely, which does limit my travel somewhat, and occasionally when sprinting I'll let them raise a tiny bit and get them back down as fast as possible at the beginning of the drive - I hope I'm taking up the freewheel/chain slack at the start and certainly it seems to give an extra something to the drive

But the big feature to me in keeping the heels down, is that when they come up my knees come up and the hamstrings pull the ischial tuberosities up and the pelvis tilts backwards and the lumbar vertebrae flex - what else can they do ? - and of course the faster I'm going the harder and sharper that shock comes on - watching some of the hackers erging at the gym, it is plain to see that there is a lot of spinal flexion in those who "ball up" and come on to their toes at the catch

I strive to keep my back as strong as possible, using it as a rigid platform from which to extend the legs, and keeping my heels down has been a great help to this end

Note however that that I am an old man, not very fast, who has had some mild lumbar problems in the past which I strongly desire to avoid and as much as possible prevent in the future
Train Don't Strain ~ Think or Sink

Nosmo
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Post by Nosmo » March 20th, 2008, 2:10 pm

Sean Seamus wrote:here's my input -

I work hard to keep my heels down completely, which does limit my travel somewhat, and occasionally when sprinting I'll let them raise a tiny bit and get them back down as fast as possible at the beginning of the drive - I hope I'm taking up the freewheel/chain slack at the start and certainly it seems to give an extra something to the drive

But the big feature to me in keeping the heels down, is that when they come up my knees come up and the hamstrings pull the ischial tuberosities up and the pelvis tilts backwards and the lumbar vertebrae flex - what else can they do ? - and of course the faster I'm going the harder and sharper that shock comes on - watching some of the hackers erging at the gym, it is plain to see that there is a lot of spinal flexion in those who "ball up" and come on to their toes at the catch

I strive to keep my back as strong as possible, using it as a rigid platform from which to extend the legs, and keeping my heels down has been a great help to this end

Note however that that I am an old man, not very fast, who has had some mild lumbar problems in the past which I strongly desire to avoid and as much as possible prevent in the future
You are entirely correct about the hackers in the gym. It is also very common among on the water rowers. Most people don't have any idea what their hip joints and pelvis are or what their lumbar spine is doing.

I don't really see the heals coming up as causing the lumbar flex, but will think about this when I row next. Usually it is the shoulders coming forward and for going for extra length using the upper body. For me, thinking about rotating the pelvis forward at the finish so that I'm sitting on the front of the sit bones, fixing the body angle before the legs start to come up, and thinking about being long both in the back and the front of the torso, keeps my lumbar straight. This also results in a more powerful catch.

I put this out just as something to think about. You may very well be correct. Clearly you have your priorities straight since you want to avoid lumbar problems. You can consider putting some tape on the rails just after the point your heals start to come up. Your seat rollers will hit it and remind you not to compress any further. The other thing you can do is lower your feet (or raise the seat) and that will make it easier to keep the heals down.

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johnlvs2run
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Post by johnlvs2run » March 20th, 2008, 7:24 pm

Nosmo wrote:You can consider putting some tape on the rails just after the point your heals start to come up. Your seat rollers will hit it and remind you not to compress any further. The other thing you can do is lower your feet (or raise the seat) and that will make it easier to keep the heals down.
The tape is an interesting idea.

How many holes showing do you usually row with?

I'm curious what your opinion is of World Champions Frans Göbel and Peter Haining's recommendation to keep the feet in the highest positions, in order for the drive propulsion to be in a more horizontal direction.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

Bob S.
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Post by Bob S. » March 20th, 2008, 7:54 pm

Nosmo wrote: The other thing you can do is lower your feet (or raise the seat) and that will make it easier to keep the heals down.
Nosmo,

Are you sure that you didn't get that backwards?. Lowering the foot board (or raising the seat) would decrease the angle between the foot and the shin and make it harder to keep the heel down.

Bob S.

Nosmo
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Post by Nosmo » March 20th, 2008, 8:03 pm

Bob S. wrote:
Nosmo wrote: The other thing you can do is lower your feet (or raise the seat) and that will make it easier to keep the heals down.
Nosmo,

Are you sure that you didn't get that backwards?. Lowering the foot board (or raising the seat) would decrease the angle between the foot and the shin and make it harder to keep the heel down.

Bob S.
Assuming one does not go past vertical with the shins I have it right. Try it.
It is a little less efficient because the direction of power applied is further from horizontal.

Sean Seamus
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Post by Sean Seamus » March 20th, 2008, 10:31 pm

Foot rests set at highest position - that is, # 1, 5 holes showing - I tried all points and settled on this after reading and futzing about

I am smallish, 5' 8", shoe size 8.5 - quite flexible by nature and do some yoga and ordinary stretching regularly - once warmed up my shins are vertical at the catch while heels are down

never wear shoes on the erg, usually cotton socks but occasionally bare feet - have my own machine at home, Model D

always strapless - if I ever decide to race again I suppose I'd use straps for high rating sessions and the actual racing - for that extra speed on the return / recovery - but then it wouldn't be much of a recovery would it !?!? - unlikely I'll race, as I am not competitive, and enjoy the rythym and repetition of longish moderate work - I urge because I enjoy it, and to keep my heart and body well - to live as well and strong as reasonably possible - racing is amazing, but I'm not an amazing guy - but maybe one year I'll enter the lists again, if only to fill the ranks and make the others work harder for their medals, and to give my training plans a different focus for awhile
Train Don't Strain ~ Think or Sink

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