Three Months to 2k PB (3/1/15)

[christopherregisryan]

Easton is indeed on my schedule. Might do Pellham also, thinking 14 days is an ideal recovery/training effect period between that and 3/1.

re treadmill for recovery: why not easy paddle for recovery? I know elite rowers mix in cycling for recovery, but assumed that was to give their back a rest from the many otw hours they pile up.
damien

Hi Damien. I will probably see you at both. Last year I did my 2k tune-up at Easton and the 500m at Pelham. I will probably do the same again this year. I have several friends rowing at Pelham Community so I will probably come down to provide moral support. Plus they set up on a wooden gym floor so I can put my weight to work holding ergs in place for the racers.

On the recovery/rest days, I do the treadmill walking to get my heart rate up and some endorphins produced to enhance my recovery. There's no work involved at all. "Worldwide Exchange" does as much to get my heart going as the walk does (especially the last few weeks with the energy market crash). I especially need to rest my upper body after speed work. Those smaller muscle groups need a full rest day before I use them again. I am sure you have better capacity for volume than I do, but those speed interval workouts require more recovery time for me. Looking at the 5k times that you and Greg produce, you both have more efficient engines than I. So your recovery may come quicker.

[Hillclimber]

Greg,
Good info on rest strategy, thanks!
damien

[Hillclimber]

Christopher,
Is there enough of a break between the 2k and 500 at pellham to do both?

[christopherregisryan]

Hi Damien. Last year the Open/Masters/Veterans events were first, then a lot of juniors, then the 500m as a finale, which was open to all. Three or so hours in between if they keep the same schedule.

[Hillclimber]

As a power and high-rating drill today, I tried the monthly Cross Team Challenge at c2ctc.com of 8 x 135, 1 min rest:
wu 6k / cd 2k

avg pace 1:24.3, avg r48
Pace r
1:23.3 53
1:23.3 48
1:23.3 48
1:24.8 47
1:24.4 47
1:24.8 47
1:25.1 47
1:25.1 47

Sure is tough to see 1:25 for 135 meters when my current season best at 500m is 1:28 - says a lot about ability to recover in 1 minute! Leaders in this event are at 1:14 - 1:17 (wow).

Technique: While warming up, I tried some quick ratings, up over 40 and after just two efforts of about 10 strokes experienced knee pain. I’ve had both knees ‘scoped (arthroscopic surgery) years ago to fix cartilage (many years of basketball), and they continue to be tender. So, I changed my shortened stroke from beginning at the catch to beginning about ¾ of the way back to the to the full catch, and pulling a full stroke back. This way, my knees were fully extended before I began the recovery. I think that stopping hard with the knees still bent, as one would in a ½ or ¾ pull puts a stress on my unstable knees that could spell injury. And that’s the last thing I need.

Or perhaps this is how one should properly execute a shortened stroke?
Damien

[christopherregisryan]

I can get to a low 40s rate with a full stroke by zipping up the slide quickly on my recovery. I found it more effective to get my splits down that way. I can't hold on very long, but I am faster while I can keep my power and rate up. This should be easier on your knees.

[MartijnvBebber]

As a power and high-rating drill today, I tried the monthly Cross Team Challenge at c2ctc.com of 8 x 135, 1 min rest:
wu 6k / cd 2k

avg pace 1:24.3, avg r48
Pace r
1:23.3 53
1:23.3 48
1:23.3 48
1:24.8 47
1:24.4 47
1:24.8 47
1:25.1 47
1:25.1 47

Sure is tough to see 1:25 for 135 meters when my current season best at 500m is 1:28 - says a lot about ability to recover in 1 minute! Leaders in this event are at 1:14 - 1:17 (wow).

Technique: While warming up, I tried some quick ratings, up over 40 and after just two efforts of about 10 strokes experienced knee pain. I’ve had both knees ‘scoped (arthroscopic surgery) years ago to fix cartilage (many years of basketball), and they continue to be tender. So, I changed my shortened stroke from beginning at the catch to beginning about ¾ of the way back to the to the full catch, and pulling a full stroke back. This way, my knees were fully extended before I began the recovery. I think that stopping hard with the knees still bent, as one would in a ½ or ¾ pull puts a stress on my unstable knees that could spell injury. And that’s the last thing I need.

Or perhaps this is how one should properly execute a shortened stroke?
Damien

Even with a shortened stroke, one would always complete the leg drive. Don't stop when you haven't finished your leg drive yet.

[rhr]

As a power and high-rating drill today, I tried the monthly Cross Team Challenge at c2ctc.com of 8 x 135, 1 min rest:
wu 6k / cd 2k

avg pace 1:24.3, avg r48
Pace r
1:23.3 53
1:23.3 48
1:23.3 48
1:24.8 47
1:24.4 47
1:24.8 47
1:25.1 47
1:25.1 47

Sure is tough to see 1:25 for 135 meters when my current season best at 500m is 1:28 - says a lot about ability to recover in 1 minute! Leaders in this event are at 1:14 - 1:17 (wow).

Technique: While warming up, I tried some quick ratings, up over 40 and after just two efforts of about 10 strokes experienced knee pain. I’ve had both knees ‘scoped (arthroscopic surgery) years ago to fix cartilage (many years of basketball), and they continue to be tender. So, I changed my shortened stroke from beginning at the catch to beginning about ¾ of the way back to the to the full catch, and pulling a full stroke back. This way, my knees were fully extended before I began the recovery. I think that stopping hard with the knees still bent, as one would in a ½ or ¾ pull puts a stress on my unstable knees that could spell injury. And that’s the last thing I need.

Or perhaps this is how one should properly execute a shortened stroke?
Damien

Damien, the CTC is done at best as 500m PB - 3 secs. So you should be good for a 1:27.3 or better for a 500m TT. The technique of beginning the stroke 3/4 of the way back to the catch and then doing a full, fast drive is the way I also rate up. You didn't mention DF - usually well above your normal levels so back pain is another risk.

[Bob S.]

for some folks, a shortened stroke is done with full leg drive, but almost no back swing. This allows the rower to get the full use of the strong leg muscles, while the torso stays pretty much vertical for the whole drive.

Bob S.

[Hillclimber]

marti and bob, thanks for the shortened-stroke tips. i think it's safe to say i will not be focusing on such short distances in the near future, although it was encouraginh to see those 1:21s in there, even for a few strokes!

rjr, thanks for the 500m prediction. gives me a realistic pace to target in my next 500m sb attempt!

damien

[Hillclimber]

Testing

How frequently should one test for the std distances of:
500m
1000m
2000m
5000m

For the 2k and 5k do any of you include a mini taper?

Given the interval pace predictors noted earlier in this thread, is it even necessary to test in the 10 weeks or so leading up to a major 2k event? might it be more harmful than beneficial given the recovery time required , especially for the 2k and 5k?

damien

[hjs]

Testing

How frequently should one test for the std distances of:
500m
1000m
2000m
5000m

For the 2k and 5k do any of you include a mini taper?

Given the interval pace predictors noted earlier in this thread, is it even necessary to test in the 10 weeks or so leading up to a major 2k event? might it be more harmful than beneficial given the recovery time required , especially for the 2k and 5k?

damien

If you are working up to races, there you focus should be, I would not test much or often and certainly not 100%, now does 100% not mean the same for everybody. But very hard 100% rows take a lot out of you.
You can however, if your trainings points to pb s, go for them. You proberly will get pb s on 95% rows. Does are fine.
To think that only 2k or 5k take long recovery is a mistake. All distances can kill you.
Tapering, a little bit, it would make little sence to go for a pb and be tired at forhand, but don,t overdo it. It will cost you trainings time.
You could proberly start with you weakest pb s, that will be easiest way.
Last point, if you are in good form, use it, I know people who trained themselves very very fast and fit but never TT, theirform was never put in real pb s.

[Hillclimber]

hjs - thanks for the words of wisdom. wish i read them an hour ago. i felt pretty good today at the usual wu, so i set my sights on a 500 sb:
4k wu
2k ut1, 1:50 r23
'4 recover
2x 10 @ 1:28
'2 recover
500m 1:27.2 SB!

rjr,
rather amazing predictive model (1:27.3) ou shared above based on my 135 pace!

damien

[Edward4492]

When I have a 2k event coming up I like to do a 1300m "predictor". I go out with what I want to do for the first 500m in my upcoming race. Then I back it off a bit and try and hold a steady pace for the next 800m. No sprint at the end, try and get there as mentally relaxed as possible on 2k race pace. These are not too psychologically demanding and I find I can usually get a good read on my 2k. I think a lot about the idea of "recovering" from a hard 2000m. When I used to bicycle race we would typically do two races on a weekend, the short ones were 45 minute balls-to-the wall criteriums (short multi-lap events). And we would do this week after week, I was averaging (50) races a year for several seasons.So, how much recovery do I need from a 7 minute 2000m?

For me..... it's all psychological and mental pressure. When I have a 2k PR on the schedule I start getting antsy 4 or 5 days before. I've never felt like quiting a bike race (although I've gotten dropped plenty of times!). But on the erg? i always feel that sinking, rotten feeling at some point where I just want to stop. The problem with doing PR's prior to a race is the self-imposed stress. You (and me!) are afraid of not performing, of not putting up the number we want.

So, from a strictly mental standpoint I like the 1300m; I also like sub-max 2k's. I like to have a number that I call my "everyday 2k". A time I'm 100% confident I can pull at any given time. Last week I decided to go for 7:05 to 7:10 (current PR is 6:59). I decided on a pace and a plan and pulled a 7:06, and it was nowhere near a PR effort. This type of effort gives me the confidence that I can go to an event and even on a bad day at least pull a number with-in a few seconds of my best. I'm pretty convinced that it's the mental stress that is debilitating when doing PR's too close to a race. I may get some push-back from Henry, Rodney and the others (which I welcome, I respect everyone's opinion here). But my experience with bike racing leads me to believe that the physical recovery for a 2k isn't as demanding as the psychological stressors.

[Bob S.]

Most OTW regattas require heats, sometimes more than just 2 in one or two days. Even Crash-B indoor event still had heats in 1995. So it is not uncommon to have to put out a couple of PB level races in the space of only a day or two. For myself, race time is the only time I get a chance to row at sea level, so I make use of it to try to get in as many different distances (or times) as I can in the short time that I am at sea level for a 2k event. By doing that I have gotten 3 or 4 WRs in during those sea level visits.

Bob S.