Advice on my technique and training, again

[hjs]

If you load your body at the catch, shoulders ahead of hips and arms extended and then drive with your legs, keeping your arms straight you will feel a "pull" against them like the feeling of hanging off a bar.

rhr: i'm new to rowing and to this forum; first got interested after seeing Frank Underwood row on House of Cards. i'm using the rowing machine as an enjoyable exercise, not for competitive training, and may join a local rowing club this summer to go out on the water with my wife and sons. this is my first post: i use a concept 2 model C at a fitness club in Milwaukee. as you suggest, i try to "front load," but i feel no resistance or pull against my hands at the beginning of the stroke. so my legs are not getting as much of a workout as i'd like. is there another model of the concept 2 line that gives that resistance at the front load? possibly the machine may need maintenance. is there anything we could check? i tried a different manufacturer at a sporting equipment store. it did seem to provide the resistance right at the beginning of the stroke, so i'm hoping the concept 2 model C (or a later model?) can do the same. any suggestions? ...

You don,t get resistance, you create it yourself. Compare it with a vertical jump. If you don,t jump nothing happens, if you lift off very explosively you get high in the air. At the catch imagion jumping in the air, you want more resistance jump higher. Make sure your arms and hands are in line with the chain, any angles gives you slack before you feel the fan giving pull.

[rhr]

Vedatel, as Henry (hjs) says, you should be creating the pull on your arms. If you drive hard with your legs and "hang" your arms off the handle you will feel the pressure. If you pull too early with your arms at the start of the stroke you won't. The idea is to compress your chest against your legs and really load your stroke at the catch - i.e. get your body well placed to explode at the start of the drive. Remember it's legs first, then you open your back and finally you pull with your arms. Best idea - post some footage of your stroke and we can have a look.

[vedatel]

Best idea - post some footage of your stroke and we can have a look.

thanks for responding. i'm too shy to post a video of my stroke at this early stage. but i'll work on your suggestions and post later, maybe even a video if i'm feeling brave.

[Hanzo]

Just get the video going, I posted several now and have gotten nothing but usefull feedback from it. It's a lot easier to learn it correct from the start, compared to trying to iron out bad habits later down the line.

[Bob S.]

Even if you don't post it, it is worth doing a full, side view video. You can check out a lot things for yourself, especially if you stop the action at certain points. Are your shins vertical at the catch? Is your body swing about 15 degrees in each direction? Are you waiting until your legs are straight on the drive before you start the arm pull? Are your hands clear of your knees on the recovery before your knees start to rise? These are some of the things that the forum members would look for but you can do it yourself. These are not things that you can easily detect while you are in the middle of rowing, but they show up clearly on a video. That's not a complete list. I am sure that others can list a few more, like bum shooting.

Bob S.

[vedatel]

Even if you don't post it, it is worth doing a full, side view video. You can check out a lot things for yourself, especially if you stop the action at certain points...

thanks. the video helps. i have a couple questions now that i looked at it: first, i noticed that i'm rotating the handle bar at the beginning and end of the drive. i think that's an old military habit, to set the end of the oars (the blade?) parallel to the water at the end of the drive and then perpendicular at the catch. also i'm raising the hands at the catch to put the blades back in the water and lowering them at the end of drive to pull the blades out. since no one else does this in their videos, i assume it's bad form on a rowing machine, and i'll try to stop the rotating and raising/lowering. if i can do that, i'll send a video. second, i think i need to work on the "pelvis neutral" position, which i read about on the web but don't understand. maybe someone can explain how to do that. third, i saw a video of a sculling simulator, operated by Bob Dreher (i think he makes sculls?). is it helpful to use a simulator, to practice crossing the hands in the drive and recovery, if my long-term goal is to get back out on the water? does anyone on this list use both (the concept 2 machines and a simulator)? does the concept 2 company make a simulator? -- TIA

[Bob S.]

Erging will get you in good condition and will strengthen some of the muscles used in rowing, but in no way will it provide proper training for rowing. If anything, it can introduce bad habits. At one time, one of the forum members posted photos of his own changes the he made in the handle to simulate the feathering action, but to introduce the hand crossing of sculling or the following the arc of sweeping would be pretty tough to do.

Bob S.

[vedatel]

Erging will get you in good condition and will strengthen some of the muscles used in rowing, but in no way will it provide proper training for rowing. If anything, it can introduce bad habits. At one time, one of the forum members posted photos of his own changes the he made in the handle to simulate the feathering action, but to introduce the hand crossing of sculling or the following the arc of sweeping would be pretty tough to do.

that's pretty much what i figured. using the machines is great for strengthening muscles and stressing the heart and lungs (good stressing, i mean), but proper rowing form on the water will only happen, well, on the water, or maybe with one of those simulators like Dreher was demonstrating. the main reason i like to rotate the oars / handlebar and simulate lowering/raising the oars in and out of the water is to break up the boredom. i kind of get in a dreamy state and just cruise along for 10-20 minutes at 12-15 SPM without feeling like i'm doing something difficult. it actually feels good. i also downloaded a few videos of ppl rowing on rivers and watch them sometimes. all in all, it's a great activity for an old guy like me. i also drive around with my wife, finding bridges over the three rivers and tribs in the milwaukee area, imagining what it'd be like to scull in a double seater on some of the wider areas. who knows, maybe someday .....