Keeping within UT2 HR zones

[JaapvanE]

If you only row, I would suggest 2 hard sessions per week (these are the key sessions) and the rest of the week can be filled with steady sessions as many as you like and can recover from to build a bigger base.

That is the key here. UT2 and polarized training work as the hard stuff is really hard (think aiming for exceeding 90% MaxHR at the end) and the rest is easy long steady state stuff where your HR doesn't exceed lactate threshold, allowing a decent recovery while building a base. Typically your ego wants to faster in those slow pieces, but the price you pay is that the hard stuff is degraded as you are exhausted before you even start.

[nick rockliff]

If you only row, I would suggest 2 hard sessions per week (these are the key sessions) and the rest of the week can be filled with steady sessions as many as you like and can recover from to build a bigger base.

That is the key here. UT2 and polarized training work as the hard stuff is really hard (think aiming for exceeding 90% MaxHR at the end) and the rest is easy long steady state stuff where your HR doesn't exceed lactate threshold, allowing a decent recovery while building a base. Typically your ego wants to faster in those slow pieces, but the price you pay is that the hard stuff is degraded as you are exhausted before you even start.

But this is a problem already, how many people know where their lactate threshold is? From the pace I see many use as SS they are wasting their time.

[Sakly]

If you only row, I would suggest 2 hard sessions per week (these are the key sessions) and the rest of the week can be filled with steady sessions as many as you like and can recover from to build a bigger base.

That is the key here. UT2 and polarized training work as the hard stuff is really hard (think aiming for exceeding 90% MaxHR at the end) and the rest is easy long steady state stuff where your HR doesn't exceed lactate threshold, allowing a decent recovery while building a base. Typically your ego wants to faster in those slow pieces, but the price you pay is that the hard stuff is degraded as you are exhausted before you even start.

I would not agree.
I suggest to do 2 really hard sessions, but the rest of weekly sessions shouldn't be easy like everyone understands the term "easy". They should be used to train a strong stroke and build the base of course. For a normal person, rowing probably 4 or if all fits in perfectly 5 to 6 times a week, I would only suggest sessions on the easier side the day before intervals.

[jcross485]

But this is a problem already, how many people know where their lactate threshold is? From the pace I see many use as SS they are wasting their time.

Curious on this - do you mean people rowing too easy or too hard?

[ShortAndStout]

But this is a problem already, how many people know where their lactate threshold is? From the pace I see many use as SS they are wasting their time.

Curious on this - do you mean people rowing too easy or too hard?

If I had to guess, probably too easy - a lot of guides suggest that your UT2 SS should be really low (for example my UT2 lower boundary is like 100W or something silly) which translates to basically no lactic buildup at all, doesn't train a powerful stroke, and doesn't really raise my HR. A lot of people like to do that sort of thing, but from what I've read, unless you're doing hours of that it's better to bump up into UT1 territory nearly, or do as this guy suggests and use it to train a low stroke, high power pull instead of classifying it under any HR measure.

[jamesg]

How to train depends on why we train. If it's for 2k racing, use a progressive plan like Interactive or develop your own from Wolverine. The basic idea in both is clear enough.

Whatever we do, we get what we pay for. There are no discounts.

[nick rockliff]

But this is a problem already, how many people know where their lactate threshold is? From the pace I see many use as SS they are wasting their time.

Curious on this - do you mean people rowing too easy or too hard?

If I had to guess, probably too easy - a lot of guides suggest that your UT2 SS should be really low (for example my UT2 lower boundary is like 100W or something silly) which translates to basically no lactic buildup at all, doesn't train a powerful stroke, and doesn't really raise my HR. A lot of people like to do that sort of thing, but from what I've read, unless you're doing hours of that it's better to bump up into UT1 territory nearly, or do as this guy suggests and use it to train a low stroke, high power pull instead of classifying it under any HR measure.

Yes, too easy and what you describe as lower UT2 is actually UT3.

[Elizabeth]

I feel like the zeitgeist of this forum has shifted to developing a long, powerful stroke. But adequately easy steady state helps to drive certain metabolic adaptations, as well as allow a real emphasis on engraving solid technique. That has value, and is consistently a part of the training programs in top athletes in various endurance sports.

I suspect my approach to steady state is seen as "too easy" by some -- 48-50% of 2k watts -- but it works for me. Steady State isn't where you want lactate build-up. And I haven't struggled with lack of power in my stroke when I need it.

All that being said, I really don't know how this translates to people who don't have the same aerobic engine and who aren't doing the volume I am.

[Sakly]

All that being said, I really don't know how this translates to people who don't have the same aerobic engine and who aren't doing the volume I am.

I think this is the important part. Most of the people asking these kind of questions are typically not doing lots of volume, say 3-4 sessions a week. For these people I think the very low intensities have no big value compared to higher intensities for the long pieces.
The approach of lower intensities for long steadies is driven by high volume to not hamper recovery. But this is no issue for low volume average athletes, which I believe get better outcome at higher intensities (not meaning going all out every time for sure).

[Gustel]

I feel like the zeitgeist of this forum has shifted to developing a long, powerful stroke. But adequately easy steady state helps to drive certain metabolic adaptations, as well as allow a real emphasis on engraving solid technique. That has value, and is consistently a part of the training programs in top athletes in various endurance sports.

I suspect my approach to steady state is seen as "too easy" by some -- 48-50% of 2k watts -- but it works for me. Steady State isn't where you want lactate build-up. And I haven't struggled with lack of power in my stroke when I need it.

All that being said, I really don't know how this translates to people who don't have the same aerobic engine and who aren't doing the volume I am.

This is nice to read as I try to follow more or less the approach that you describe and started to wonder that it might be odd.
I was never a top athlete in any sport but always enjoyed to do some form of sport on most days of the week. At the moment I row 6 times a week and try to run 2-3 times a week. All distributed over 6 days with one rest day. Three days are hard and the rest is what I call easy. My easy rows are at 136 watts which is around 54% of my 2k watts. For these easy sessions my heart rate is at 70% of my max heart rate if I am healthy and managed to get enough sleep. The easy sessions feel great. They are excellent for trying to improve my technique, destress/relax from work and sort out any running niggles (back/knee). Overall, I really like the easy/hard approach with the easy sessions being often the highlight.

[Dangerscouse]

I feel like the zeitgeist of this forum has shifted to developing a long, powerful stroke. But adequately easy steady state helps to drive certain metabolic adaptations, as well as allow a real emphasis on engraving solid technique. That has value, and is consistently a part of the training programs in top athletes in various endurance sports.

I suspect my approach to steady state is seen as "too easy" by some -- 48-50% of 2k watts -- but it works for me. Steady State isn't where you want lactate build-up. And I haven't struggled with lack of power in my stroke when I need it.

All that being said, I really don't know how this translates to people who don't have the same aerobic engine and who aren't doing the volume I am.

Good point. I've tried all sorts of training, partly due to my naivety for a lot of years and then due to wanting to make up for lost time / a thirst for knowledge from 2016 onwards.

I'm not fully engaged with any particular type of training, and I like to vary between all sorts of intensities, stroke rates etc, but I think the critical difference is that I'm always interrogating what I'm doing and then addressing what I'm missing before it deteriorates into something a lot harder to dig myself out of, either from not enough or doing too much.

I think you allude to something important, that this forum is a good mixture of all sorts of ages, abilities and competitiveness, so there is no one size fits all. I hopefully do try to be even handed in my comments, as I know not everyone can or wants to do what I can do.

[MPx]

And I haven't struggled with lack of power in my stroke when I need it.

Ha Ha! Looking at your October CTC score at an avg 1:21 pace there's clearly no lack of power in your stroke! Many on here would be chuffed to get anywhere near that.

[p_b82]

I think there's a lot of talk about concentration on a "good/powerful" stroke because when new it's so very easy to increase the pace by flying up and down the slide in what is an inefficient manner.

But when starting it feels great because it's free pace - hey I took X seconds off my PB by rating up from 26 to 28 - for example.

Sadly that becomes an aspect of diminishing returns and a plateau will form on progress - whether progress is what the person is after is a matter of choice for people as individuals, but even those of us just doing this for improved fitness, do like to see numbers going up/down as appropriate.

On the flip side, starting slow and gently and building up power in the stroke helps avoid undue injury in the early days before technique and muscle memory has had a chance to bed in, so there is a balance.

All I can say from my personal experience, is that I know my rowing stroke is now "better" in terms of power; I can generate a lot more force during the drive, and I can maintain that same effort exerted from r20 ->r40 - and I had significantly inferior numbers before I went back to concentrate on the drive part specifically.

My Cv base is my weaker link, and I think once that improves more I'll be able to take further steps on the power side as well.

[iain]

It is easy to talk UT2 or zone 2 as if it is set in stone. The reality is that it isn't, people use from 65 - 75% of HRR or HR max so quite some variation. Also as someone who has frequently had long gaps of little exercise, a given %HR feels very different when not fit. ISTM that these have been developed for people fairly close to their peak performance for significant periods. As such they will have high stroke volumes so their hearts will have to work harder at 70% max than most recreational athletes. Learn what works for you and don't let your ego push you to train SS at paces/distances that you can't recover from for the next session. The rest is trying to ensure this.

I would take issue with "everyone knows what is easy". when feeling motivated I can be sweating really hard and would struggle to say more than a couple of words per breath so definitely UT1 and probably into AT, but it feels good and not particularly taxing, while when fit I can maintain this for long periods. Others would only be comfortable at UT3 as seen by many who struggle to walk a couple of miles at a modest pace. Is it ego that makes me consider this "easy"? I think it is more what you are used to and endorphin levels. I would endorse the above that SS is only really important following or preceding a day of an intense session (although I understand that this may not hold for the older rowers many of whom report that rowing >4 times a week in late 70s+ can be counter productive).

[btlifter]

A few misconceptions floating around here...

-SS is not intense. It's in the name. Of course there is no lactate buildup, if there were it would no longer be "steady". One can make the argumen, as Sakly has, that at low training volumes SS is not the moat effecrive use of one's time. But It's probably useful to at leaat know what one is talking about.

-Elizabeth has already addressed the "stroke stroke" zeitgeist nonsense more eloquently than I would. But, I just want to cosign her statement.... Strong strokes come from strong rowers. Low s/r training does not make rowers strong.

-On the topic of strength... "strength endurance" is mostly a myth. Not entirely, but mostly. The way to build "strength endurance" is simply to get stronger OR to build one's aerobic capacity. Bonus points for doing both. Doing exceasively high repetitions of some "strength training" movement (whether with external load or calisthenics) is not the solution.