Is Zone 2 training really possible on Rower?

[andrewjb]

I bought a C2 rower a few months ago for basically the same reasons as the OP, "zone 2 cardio" to support general health and other sports (as popularized by folks like Iñigo San Millán ISM). I had considered a bike erg but went for the rower as the power aspect of rowing appealed and it's full body, not just legs. Moreover I did already have a bike and nearby cycleway.

Not being particularly aerobically fit, or acclimatized to rowing, it was initially quite hard to sit on the rower for much more than 15-20 mins and even at the normal long distance pace of 18-22 spm, I found myself blowing quite a bit and/or getting back/bottom aches (you should keep each stroke reasonably powerful AIUI). In contrast, I found it a lot easier to just jump on my bike for 60mins and stay somewhere in/around Z2. I totally understand why the rower is the least used cardio machine in your typical gym, it's just not that easy to jump on it and do, say, "30 mins cardio".

Fast forward to now. With improved fitness and acclimatization, I've been able do longer rowing intervals. I can row 60 mins at a comfortable pace and feel pretty good afterwards. I'd say I prefer it now to the bike because having built up cardio vascular fitness via the rower, the bike just seems to challenge my leg muscles more than my CV system and does nothing for arms, back and core. The rower is so versatile, you can do the aerobic work and then throw in some high intensity at the end...

I'm definitely feeling healthier and fitter in general. Rowing has great carryover, and not just in aerobic conditioning. I've noticed a nice improvement in pull up strength (despite not training these specifically) and gained a bit of muscle too.

In short, my answer to the OP is "absolutely ". It's probably not for everyone, but I'm very happy so far with my decision to go for the Row Erg.

[dabatey]

I bought a C2 rower a few months ago for basically the same reasons as the OP, "zone 2 cardio" to support general health and other sports (as popularized by folks like Iñigo San Millán ISM). I had considered a bike erg but went for the rower as the power aspect of rowing appealed and it's full body, not just legs. Moreover I did already have a bike and nearby cycleway.

Not being particularly aerobically fit, or acclimatized to rowing, it was initially quite hard to sit on the rower for much more than 15-20 mins and even at the normal long distance pace of 18-22 spm, I found myself blowing quite a bit and/or getting back/bottom aches (you should keep each stroke reasonably powerful AIUI). In contrast, I found it a lot easier to just jump on my bike for 60mins and stay somewhere in/around Z2. I totally understand why the rower is the least used cardio machine in your typical gym, it's just not that easy to jump on it and do, say, "30 mins cardio".

Fast forward to now. With improved fitness and acclimatization, I've been able do longer rowing intervals. I can row 60 mins at a comfortable pace and feel pretty good afterwards. I'd say I prefer it now to the bike because having built up cardio vascular fitness via the rower, the bike just seems to challenge my leg muscles more than my CV system and does nothing for arms, back and core. The rower is so versatile, you can do the aerobic work and then throw in some high intensity at the end...

I'm definitely feeling healthier and fitter in general. Rowing has great carryover, and not just in aerobic conditioning. I've noticed a nice improvement in pull up strength (despite not training these specifically) and gained a bit of muscle too.

In short, my answer to the OP is "absolutely ". It's probably not for everyone, but I'm very happy so far with my decision to go for the Row Erg.

I think you have summed the rower up pretty well there. The 'strength' portion of the rower means it isn't a jump on and go cardio machine like a bike (for most folks), but soon becomes so once you have built a decent rowing stroke and gained some strength endurance specific to the rower.

[p_b82]

I'm another who's Hr doesn't align with RPE in terms of the zonal bandings.

I can plug away with a hr just below 170 for 45-60min and it feel like a max RPE 5 session with a lazy stroke & higher rating - 170 is my zone 5 Hr threshold by the bandings.
I find anything with a Hr around 150 as "easy"; my zone2 banding is apparently around 135bpm.

So I've switched to ignoring my HR and going by RPE / physical responses for a training metric. I don't row/exercise daily though, so I am not concerned by overtraining.

[aegis]

I'm another who's Hr doesn't align with RPE in terms of the zonal bandings.

I can plug away with a hr just below 170 for 45-60min and it feel like a max RPE 5 session with a lazy stroke & higher rating - 170 is my zone 5 Hr threshold by the bandings.
I find anything with a Hr around 150 as "easy"; my zone2 banding is apparently around 135bpm.

So I've switched to ignoring my HR and going by RPE / physical responses for a training metric. I don't row/exercise daily though, so I am not concerned by overtraining.

I am guessing your true max hr is higher? Mucking around in zone 4/5 in extended periods is extremely taxing for most people. Elite athletes can stay in higher zone for longer but doesn't make it any less uncomfortable for them.

[p_b82]

max I've seen is 189, so 170 is 90% Mhr

RPE of zone 4/5 I fit all the metrics - panting/stressed muscle fatigue, high sweat. But by Hr alone I don't follow the norms. 1:20:00 of my 1:40:00 HM I was above 170bpm Hr.

[JaapvanE]

max I've seen is 189, so 170 is 90% Mhr

RPE of zone 4/5 I fit all the metrics - panting/stressed muscle fatigue, high sweat. But by Hr alone I don't follow the norms. 1:20:00 of my 1:40:00 HM I was above 170bpm Hr.

Wow! Auch! That is tough man. I wouldn't survive 80 minutes at HR170+

[Aquaman]

As a start, all of these metric-based approaches are approximations. We all differ in terms of aerobic capacity, body mechanics, age, muscle fiber composition, lactate thresholds, etc. I'm a fan of Power Zone training for bike ergs and have adapted its use to the row erg but with some calibrations. When I do a 20 min or ramp FTP test on a rower, I don't pull the same average Watts as on the bike even though I feel I am working the same (RPE & HR equivalents). I attribute the difference to power translation: vertical positioning on bike with all leg application of force and majority- but not all - body weight carried by seat (except during stand-up pedaling which adds to force applied), vs horizontal positioning on row erg with ~80% application of force via legs and remainder delivered by core / upper body while the seat and rail continuously carry all my bodyweight.

Coggan's power zones are outlined with detail here: https://velodynamics2.webs.com/traininglevels.pdf

His Zone 2 "Endurance" covers 2 - 5 hour workouts, so you would be in there.

[Rayving]

Although predominantly cycling related, this should help dispel some of the myths surrounding the zone 2 saga. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-6DhfMJH84E.
The same is available via podcast.

[hardlyart]

Thank you for all your responses; they have given me a lot to consider.

After careful consideration, here's my decision:

I've opted for a BikeErg to have the flexibility of doing my desired amount of steady-state workouts at home. I plan to do 3 or 4 one-hour sessions a week.

I'll continue to use the Rower at my climbing gym because I genuinely enjoy rowing, and being 6'6", I've realized that being tall has its advantages! I'll focus on refining my rowing technique while incorporating my home BikeErg training. I believe that this combination will significantly improve my top-end sprinting distances on the rower. I've made note of my times before starting zone 2 training, and I'm excited to see how they improve with my enhanced cardio base and better technique.

[powerbelly]

max I've seen is 189, so 170 is 90% Mhr

RPE of zone 4/5 I fit all the metrics - panting/stressed muscle fatigue, high sweat. But by Hr alone I don't follow the norms. 1:20:00 of my 1:40:00 HM I was above 170bpm Hr.

Wow! Auch! That is tough man. I wouldn't survive 80 minutes at HR170+

Honestly man, I'm getting back into rowing again, for zone 2 training. And I'm a "powerlifter" if I was compelled to classify myself. Former CrossFit coach and rowing enthusiast, but it's been about 5 years. And so in my position getting to 170HR is easy. You can't really compare if you're in shape with your cardio. Just like someone who used to squat 315lbs but hasn't for a while...it's not the same game after years without squatting.

For me I'm strong and my body still wants to move like it used to, but I can't, have to stay super disciplined (or I rip up to 190HR with ease). But more some of us, rowing at 160-170 is actually quite comfortable. My goal at the moment is to bring that number down though, slowly, but surely. I decided it doesn't matter how much I can squat if walking up stairs makes me out of breath.

Did an hour last night with an average HR of 148. It was good. Honestly already seeing huge progress, had the same pace as my 45 minute a few weeks ago and my average heart rate was down 6 beats. and I happily deadlifted a PR afterwards! Amazing stuff!

[JaapvanE]

But more some of us, rowing at 160-170 is actually quite comfortable. My goal at the moment is to bring that number down though, slowly, but surely. I decided it doesn't matter how much I can squat if walking up stairs makes me out of breath.

First of all: welcome back on the machine!

Please have a look at this video: https://youtu.be/Vr0P9SdD8YU

Cam is a tall strong man, used to be part of team GB. He tried the same approach (keeping pace, hoping HR would drop), and it went wrong. Might not apply to you specifically, but it shows that too much non-Zone 2 stuff in a week can really hurt you and might be counterproductive.

[laker]

I bought a C2 rower a few months ago for basically the same reasons as the OP, "zone 2 cardio" to support general health and other sports (as popularized by folks like Iñigo San Millán ISM). I had considered a bike erg but went for the rower as the power aspect of rowing appealed and it's full body, not just legs. Moreover I did already have a bike and nearby cycleway.

Not being particularly aerobically fit, or acclimatized to rowing, it was initially quite hard to sit on the rower for much more than 15-20 mins and even at the normal long distance pace of 18-22 spm, I found myself blowing quite a bit and/or getting back/bottom aches (you should keep each stroke reasonably powerful AIUI). In contrast, I found it a lot easier to just jump on my bike for 60mins and stay somewhere in/around Z2. I totally understand why the rower is the least used cardio machine in your typical gym, it's just not that easy to jump on it and do, say, "30 mins cardio".

Fast forward to now. With improved fitness and acclimatization, I've been able do longer rowing intervals. I can row 60 mins at a comfortable pace and feel pretty good afterwards. I'd say I prefer it now to the bike because having built up cardio vascular fitness via the rower, the bike just seems to challenge my leg muscles more than my CV system and does nothing for arms, back and core. The rower is so versatile, you can do the aerobic work and then throw in some high intensity at the end...

I'm definitely feeling healthier and fitter in general. Rowing has great carryover, and not just in aerobic conditioning. I've noticed a nice improvement in pull up strength (despite not training these specifically) and gained a bit of muscle too.

In short, my answer to the OP is "absolutely ". It's probably not for everyone, but I'm very happy so far with my decision to go for the Row Erg.

You really seem to be figuring things out. Do you mind sharing what protocol you've been following? As a blind follower of what Attia says (jk) I am aiming at building my endurance so I can do 3 to 4 hours of "zone 2 training". This is with 3 to 4 session a week.

Just for reference, to me today it seems like 150 watts is a rate of exertion that passes the "talk test" Attia talks about, and so I am extending my sessions 3 minutes at a time so I can get to that 60 min target. But honestly I have no idea what I am doing.

[subleq]

I've been having the same problem. Going as slow as I can, at rate 20, puts my heart rate in the 150's.

[btlifter]

I've been having the same problem. Going as slow as I can, at rate 20, puts my heart rate in the 150's.

It can be difficult to be honest with one's self.

You were surely not going as slow as you can. Having said that, sometimes folks don't have requisite fitness levels to facilitate performing a "low intensity" session with a quality stroke.

[JaapvanE]

I've been having the same problem. Going as slow as I can, at rate 20, puts my heart rate in the 150's.

Slowing down the recovery usually does the trick for me.