I feel like I underuse my legs on the erg

[nick rockliff]

Damn that's crazy, I feel lactic burn nearly always at the end of my workout, although to be fair I try to get even further down with the time, down to a 2:00 for the last minute (if I'm not completely dead by then ) It isn't completely mind-numbing 2K kind of lactic burn, it just hurts a bit and basically forces you to keep going

That's quite common, and I think I'm in the minority. I rarely feel the need to drink during a workout, so I'm wondering if my significant amount of drinking water every day helps, as lactic acid is produced when we're low on oxygen and hydrogen ions. I'm also more suited to endurance sessions, so I've possibly got a more efficient oxygen utilisation system

I thought lactic acid causing muscle soreness was a myth?

[c2jonw]

https://www.concept2.com/news/improving ... orce-curve
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... orce-curve

Check out the above links on using the force curve to help you row more efficiently. Also I suggest posting a side shot video of yourself rowing.

[Dangerscouse]

I thought lactic acid causing muscle soreness was a myth?

No idea tbh, but are we talking at crossed purposes? I'm referring to the burn during rowing and not DOMS. I never get muscle soreness unless it's the first session after having an extended break

[p_b82]

I feel fatigue in my legs - it mostly comes from the bottom of my quads just above the knees; the rest of the the muscles don't really give me much of an indication they're working either. getting off the erg they can be a bit jelly like immediately after tho. (esp after my 2k where I was very wobbly)

I had some minor DOMS after the 2k TT, but all others I've done have just been "normal" used muscles the day after.

For me my "blowing up" is CV side - being unable to maintain the oxygen demands, rather than my muscles giving out.

[iain]

Interesting discussion. IIRC, the myth is that it is lactate that causes the burn. Lactate is a readily usable fuel, it is the excess acidity that causes the burn. I think the ratio of fast to slow twitch effects how much we experience this as it is the use of fast twitch that causes the acidification. There is also a pain tolerance point. I have never felt "lactate" burn in a race even when my legs have completely ceased to function (finishing in mad arms and back thrash), although frequently had pain several hours later. I assume my body is good at dosing me up on endorphines!

@THeXe, 19-21 is fine for training, but I assume that you raise this for hard non-rate restricted sessions or TTs. If you struggle to rate 28+ for 5'+ rows, then you might find restricting your layback makes you faster.

- IAin

[GlennUk]

getting off the erg they can be a bit jelly like immediately after tho. (esp after my 2k where I was very wobbly)

Im not sure how you can tell if your legs are 'jelly like' when you're (I'm) laying on the floor!!

Seriously, I have never 'felt the burn' although i have suffered from DOMS, but not from erging for a long time.

I recently started using weights and find that i get some very minor soreness a day of so later from that. Yesterday, the day after a DL/squats the day before (only moderate weights) that this affected how my training sessions on the erg felt (i actually took a second off per split form the previous time i did that session).

[Tsnor]

getting off the erg they can be a bit jelly like immediately after tho. (esp after my 2k where I was very wobbly)

Im not sure how you can tell if your legs are 'jelly like' when you're (I'm) laying on the floor!!

Seriously, I have never 'felt the burn' although i have suffered from DOMS, but not from erging for a long time.

I recently started using weights and find that i get some very minor soreness a day of so later from that. Yesterday, the day after a DL/squats the day before (only moderate weights) that this affected how my training sessions on the erg felt (i actually took a second off per split form the previous time i did that session).

Most weight lifters will not train the same muscle groups two days in a rows. If you are pounding squats and deadlifts consider making the following day a long/slow day or a rest day vs rowing hard steady state or intervals. It's fine to stack the weights and hard rowing on the same day, it's the preceding and following days that needs to be long/slow or rest.

(There are exceptions to everything. For example Alex's thread on 500M record attempt shows a training plan of 5 days of packed work. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=204626&hilit=alex And Mike Caviston works 365 days a year. But for most people balancing rest, long/slow and hard efforts yields the biggest conditioning gains at lowest risk).

[GlennUk]

Most weight lifters will not train the same muscle groups two days in a rows. If you are pounding squats and deadlifts consider making the following day a long/slow day or a rest day vs rowing hard steady state or intervals. It's fine to stack the weights and hard rowing on the same day, it's the preceding and following days that needs to be long/slow or rest.

(There are exceptions to everything. For example Alex's thread on 500M record attempt shows a training plan of 5 days of packed work. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=204626&hilit=alex And Mike Caviston works 365 days a year. But for most people balancing rest, long/slow and hard efforts yields the biggest conditioning gains at lowest risk).

Tsnor, thanks for the advice, as it happens my lifting days usually follow an easy day, not the other way round. Funnily enough i had noticed the 'weight' in my legs after the last weight session on the following day so may switch things around a bit to see how that works for me.

[JaapvanE]

getting off the erg they can be a bit jelly like immediately after tho. (esp after my 2k where I was very wobbly)

Im not sure how you can tell if your legs are 'jelly like' when you're (I'm) laying on the floor!!

Jelly like legs might be the cause you are lying on the floor.

[GlennUk]

getting off the erg they can be a bit jelly like immediately after tho. (esp after my 2k where I was very wobbly)

Im not sure how you can tell if your legs are 'jelly like' when you're (I'm) laying on the floor!!

Jelly like legs might be the cause you are lying on the floor.

True, although if i have a proper hard session i dont bother trying to stand, hence not being able to tell!

[mjhatten]

It takes a lot of focus for me to stick to form. One of my tendencies is to slough off on catch and try to make up for it on the finish. What helps me is to focus on my feet. If I feel like I'm rolling my feet to a toe press, it get a much stronger leg involvement.

I'm no expert and I'm lucky to be in the 50th percentile of my age group so take it for what it's worth.