Another newbie

[jamesg]

Male age 62, 6ft 2 14st 8lbs (204)
Given my age and experience do you think 8 mins is possible by the end of March? If yes what training will help me get there?

You should be able to stay faster than 8 minutes at least until 70y. Good technique will make it possible.

The basic technique guidelines for a stroke that uses the legs are here:
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

Here you can see typical beginner programs:
https://www.britishrowing.org/indoor-ro ... ing-plans/

NB what we actually train when rowing is the stroke itself, since we do nothing else. So make it good and safe: I've pulled at least 2 million strokes since I was your age, with no injuries save when I fell off my bike. I learnt to row at school. Good technique with standard rowing style, posture and sequences can let you work hard with the legs, without risking further injury, but you will be aware of your limits.

The only settings the C2 erg allows are drag and foot height: keeping both low is safer. The wrists also merit special attention. Keep them flat, relaxed and straight at all times, they have to transmit all the work we do.

[Kerry1960]

Thanks for the advice. I'm only looking at the end of March because I'm more of an outdoorsy person in Spring/Summer (Golf/Cycling) so I'd only envisaged a 3 month fitness programme before I'd even tried the Concept 2. However, regardless of whether I hit 8 mins by March 31 or not I will be back for a 6 month programme next Autumn/Winter. Love the rowing and how much stronger I feel because of it. 30 min row later today which I've never done before so will feel a long time I imagine. Aiming for 6000m in 30 mins.

[p_b82]

If you plan to be a bit seasonal in your rowing, I'd suggest that you do something moderate weekly at least in the warmer months - otherwise you'll be back at the beginning as the seasons change.

I think they say that a week off of training = 2 weeks to get back to where you were before - so just something to bear in mind, if you're planning on setting yourself targets each time.

[Kerry1960]

Managed 29:52 for 6k today but found it tough going. Actually slightly outside 30 min with 1k to go but rallied with a 2:15 final 500. Hardest thing I've done so far on a Concept 2. Rest day tomorrow then 2k attempt on Thursday.

[iain]

The one thing not covered above is the rating that you are rowing at. Rowing power is made up of the work per stroke times number of strokes per minute. The faster intervals help you get used to the higher 2k ratings, the longer rows allow you to concentrate on developing a powerful stroke at lower ratings. Essentially the stroke should remain the same except for slowing the slide on the longer rows to reduce the stroke frequency. Where rowing differs from more continuous sports is that it requires high power for a minority of the time giving time to recover between. Many new converts don't push hard enough during the stroke and therefore require too high a rating to achieve the speed they require. This is very inefficient. What balance of work / stroke to rating is optimum differs. Broadly the stronger you are the higher the work per stroke, the fitter you are the higher the rating.

Hope it goes well.

- Iain

[Kerry1960]

On the 2k rows I've been 28-30 spm though I understand fron looking through the posts this is possibly too high and I should drop the spm slightly but try to exert more power per stroke. I use damper at 5 on 2ks.
On longer rows more like 24-26 spm with damper on 3

I've got a decent engine with a background in running but lacking a bit in power, and possibly technique, though I think both are improving. Although the technique definitely got a bit ragged at times during my first 30 min row yesterday.

Any advice welcome.

[jamesg]

29:52 for 6k today but found it tough going.
On longer rows more like 24-26 spm with damper on 3

That's 100W at 24-26, a good start, but it would seem that the length of the piece is excessive and the rating too high, forcing you into weak strokes. Don't let it become a bad habit.

Think you'll do better to keep the rating low (20) and pull bigger strokes as to length and force. If that stops you after only 20-30 strokes, well done and welcome to rowing.

[p_b82]

On the 2k rows I've been 28-30 spm though I understand fron looking through the posts this is possibly too high and I should drop the spm slightly but try to exert more power per stroke. I use damper at 5 on 2ks.
On longer rows more like 24-26 spm with damper on 3

I've got a decent engine with a background in running but lacking a bit in power, and possibly technique, though I think both are improving. Although the technique definitely got a bit ragged at times during my first 30 min row yesterday.

Any advice welcome.

when doing a 2K TT; you'll want to be at rating 30+ eventually - essentially it's a high as you can go for as long as you can, as strong as you can... I've only put myself through the one 2K, as they are brutal (still a n00b myself).

While Jamesg's advice is good for building a strong stroke and the endurance to go with it - which is critical for OTW rowing - I'd say keep going at a rate that your CV system can cope with and get the time in as well.

I personally found it easier to get mileage at a low wattage (pace) at roughly 22-26spm; as that helped me build the muscle memory quickly, and avoided putting stresses on muscles "chasing" the power with the low ratings - I made that mistake early and pulled my bicep.

Now that I'm much more comfortable with my stroke, I have then found it easier to start training for more power at lower ratings - my CV system however can still cope with a higher rate with less effort - EG I have a lower HR with 2:25@27 as I do 2:25@25; we're all built differently, so again find something for you that feels good, and you can always develop/change things later.

I'd personally not change the drag factor around too much - I keep mine at approx 120 (it's the number the damper corresponds to but it is more accurate and the DF can be applied to any C2 and "feel" the same, where the damper setting can be different) whether that's a 2k or a HM.
Play around and find a value setting that you can generate good power - but also "feels" right. you'll know what that means when you get a stroke that just flows all the way through each and every time.

when doing the really short sprints, many jump the DF significantly due to the nature of how the sprint needs to be rowed. Not a discipline I'm that interested in so can't comment more than that.

[iain]

Well done on completing the 6k. This should give you confidence to do some easier workouts. I still think that you can probably iron out some kinks from your stroke to increase the power per stroke with little extra effort. 24-26 is a reasonable rating for a hard 6k, but is a bit high to allow you to concentrate on improving your stroke. I don't think you should concentrate on the absolute pace when rowing at lower ratings, you are not trying to force the pace just remove inefficiencies. Primarily you are concentrating on ensuring that the power generated by your legs is all transferred to the handle. This requires you to keep your arms straight and body at the same angle through the start of the power stroke. Slowing the rating is from crawling up the slide (most find it initially seems ridiculously slow, but the "boat" keeps moving and the effort in going back up the slide is not recorded by the monitor, so should be minimised except when at high power). When training your stroke you shouldn't get out of breath as this is likely to compromise your stroke. Try and keep the stroke consistent and eliminate whatever you do on the strokes where the pace deteriorates.

To row a sub 8 at 30SPM requires 6.75WMin per stroke. Your 6k was at 4.2WMin, so a much stronger stroke is required. Personally, except where specifically trying to up my stroke power as an exercise, my work per stroke only varies around 10-15%, so >50% increase requires a change in technique. I would aim at rowing at 18SPM at <2:40 pace. To hit the power per stroke required for sub 8 would require 2:22 pace at 18SPM! That will take some time, but <2:40 heading towards 2:30 is a good start and should demonstrate that much of the effort required to maintain 24+ SPM at this pace is being wasted.

As for DF, I agree that most rowing should be at the same DF. Low DF does allow you to develop a faster stroke, but it also allows some inefficiencies to be maintained (such as rowing with bent arms during the leg drive). As mentioned above DF at a given damper number varies a lot on some machines. i have rowed on a gym machine where 10 was a DF of 95 as it was completely clogged. I only change mine if I am carrying an injury, doing sprints or doing FM or longer. Otherwise I keep it at what I am used to.

Sorry for the long post, hope there is something of use to you!

- IAin

[Dangerscouse]

I personally found it easier to get mileage at a low wattage (pace) at roughly 22-26spm; as that helped me build the muscle memory quickly, and avoided putting stresses on muscles "chasing" the power with the low ratings - I made that mistake early and pulled my bicep.

Now that I'm much more comfortable with my stroke, I have then found it easier to start training for more power at lower ratings - my CV system however can still cope with a higher rate with less effort - EG I have a lower HR with 2:25@27 as I do 2:25@25; we're all built differently, so again find something for you that feels good, and you can always develop/change things later.

I'd personally not change the drag factor around too much - I keep mine at approx 120 (it's the number the damper corresponds to but it is more accurate and the DF can be applied to any C2 and "feel" the same, where the damper setting can be different) whether that's a 2k or a HM.
Play around and find a value setting that you can generate good power - but also "feels" right. you'll know what that means when you get a stroke that just flows all the way through each and every time.

Good advice

[Kerry1960]

Thanks again for the advice. 2k later today but after that no 2ks for a week. Will do longer rows on some days and alternate with shorter intervals on the other days. For info a 130 DF on the rower I use equates to a damper setting at the top end of 5 which is what I use for the 2K.

[Kerry1960]

Managed 08:34 for 2k today. It's apparent to me now that improvements are going to be incremental and I'm unlikely to see big gains week by week. However, still 6 weeks to go to March 31. I think I can possibly make it.

[mitchel674]

Managed 08:34 for 2k today. It's apparent to me now that improvements are going to be incremental and I'm unlikely to see big gains week by week. However, still 6 weeks to go to March 31. I think I can possibly make it.

As I said, you already made your big gains. Dropping from 10 minutes down to 8:34 is huge and indicates you technique is improving.

All gains from now on will be small and a grind. Do yourself a favor and stop doing 2k time trials so often. Put the work in and your times will gradually improve.

[Sakly]

I am on the rower for 13 month now and performed 3 TTs for a 2k in total. I will go for another this month as its the team challenge.
2 or more per month is a bit too much I think

[Kerry1960]

Thanks for posts. I realise that doing 2k TTs every week isn't ideal long term but, at the moment, breaking 8 mins for 2K by March 31 is my only goal and I need to see consistent progress to know for sure that 'm on track

Yesterday I did 4x500 at sub 2min pace with 3 mins rest.
Today I might try a 1k at 4 min pace just to see if I can do it followed by a slower 20 min row once I've recovered.