Ask Me Anything: Strength Training for Rowing/Erging

[StrengthCoachWill]

Thanks for the reply - at my gym a typical class/session will involve work on a basic lift or Oly lift with varying rep schemes. The workout or capacity training part can be a lot of different things but typically higher reps. I only dedicate a couple days a week to CF and then row at least 3 days and also have one day to just weight train and hit whatever area I think didn't get trained well that week. When I was preparing for the WRIC I barely lifted at all and rowed 5/6 days a week. I did get weaker and still trying to get that back, but my rowing was actually way better. As you can see I have been trying to be both a competitive erger and CF athlete at the same time - has worked out well for the most part but I know each may suffer some at the expense of the other. In the end, I guess as long as I am still fairly strong not much to change with the weights.

I think simultaneous peak erging performance and peak Crossfit performance will be a hard combination. Crossfit is the sport of anti-specificity, after all, and erg performance is much more specific. It sounds like you've got a good combo now as a general training plan, but I'd think that some adjustment would be necessary as you get closer to a competition in either. Try not cutting strength training out entirely next time. Even just 1-2 short 30-45 minute sessions per week to maintain strength and power, and a couple movements to reduce risk of injury, can go a long way toward keeping you going. 3-5 sets of 1-3 reps in the 75-90%1RM range for main work, 2-3 sets of 8-12 on the assistance work, 1-2 movements each, and you're done in <45 with a warmup, and you won't have to re-build when you come back to strength training.

[StrengthCoachWill]

Plenty of information here for me to digest and work through. I've got a pretty good strength base, definitely been watching for good deals on a Rack, bar, and plates - long term goal, lots of other important things ahead of it on the list unfortunately.

I do have resistance bands, I just forgot to mention them. I'm definitely going to look into some technique vids for the dumbbell lifts you mentioned, and a KB is still on the short-term buy list.

Thanks a lot man!

All of those exercises are on my Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/strengthcoachwill

You can do a lot in the meantime with what you have. Be creative. Find ways to make the lifts harder, like pause squats and 1-arm alternating presses/rows, so you can get more out of lighter weights.

[Gammmmo]

Hi Will, in your opinion which single weights exercise contributes most to increased power on the erg, particularly with regard to shorter events such as 1min, 500m and maybe even 1K. Deads? Seated Row? BenchPull?

Gammo, going off our other thread, I'd say trap/hex bar deadlift, followed by front squat. Most rowers tend to "get" trap bar better than front squat. It's still better than conventional deadlift for its greater lower body contribution, ease of technique, and minimizing shear force on the spine. The front squat would be my other close pick because it prioritizes leg development even more. I see more rowers who are held back by weak quads than weak backs. The tendency is to turn every lift into a back lift, and the front squat won't let you do that. As I've mentioned, I'm really not a fan of minimalist strength training programs, so even though these are my two favorite lifts for rowing performance, athletes I coach do a lot more than just this in training!

OK - thanks.

1. I do worry about the shearing force on my lower back, among other things going kaput, when doing conventional deadlifting. I don't feel like I've always pushed my limits for this reason and have employed a very steady approach to increasing weight. Lately, I've had no issues but I get the impression if something DID go wrong it could be quite serious. In my limited experience with the trap bar I have felt it safer and will probably in time get my own one. One thing that puts me off is being able to get to an arbitrary standard - most people you can compare with seem to use a standard deadlift. I wouldn't want to do X amount of weight with the hex bar and not be able to directly compare with others. For my height/weight/frame (lightly built - think runner/cyclist really who has put on some muscle) I have this goal in mind of being able to do 400lbs. Current PB is around 300lbs but I do feel there is plenty of low hanging fruit.

2. My squat is even worse than my deadlift. I videoed myself and I seem to hold the barbell very high to the point where my thoracic region looks very rounded especially towards the top of the lift. It feels very awkward to have the bar any lower. I also don't feel THAT much quad activation. I definitely will experiment with front squats.

[StrengthCoachWill]

OK - thanks.

1. I do worry about the shearing force on my lower back, among other things going kaput, when doing conventional deadlifting. I don't feel like I've always pushed my limits for this reason and have employed a very steady approach to increasing weight. Lately, I've had no issues but I get the impression if something DID go wrong it could be quite serious. In my limited experience with the trap bar I have felt it safer and will probably in time get my own one. One thing that puts me off is being able to get to an arbitrary standard - most people you can compare with seem to use a standard deadlift. I wouldn't want to do X amount of weight with the hex bar and not be able to directly compare with others. For my height/weight/frame (lightly built - think runner/cyclist really who has put on some muscle) I have this goal in mind of being able to do 400lbs. Current PB is around 300lbs but I do feel there is plenty of low hanging fruit.

2. My squat is even worse than my deadlift. I videoed myself and I seem to hold the barbell very high to the point where my thoracic region looks very rounded especially towards the top of the lift. It feels very awkward to have the bar any lower. I also don't feel THAT much quad activation. I definitely will experiment with front squats.

1. I'd rather see how your erg results stack up

2. You will be in good company with many a long-femured rower if front squats feel significantly more comfortable than back squats. I've found it very rare for rowers over 6'3 or 6'4 to be able to reach parallel depth with good technique in a barbell back squat, but many of these rowers can do so easily in a front squat. Here's an old video with a former rower who was around 6'5. You can see where he really struggles in the back squat, but descends more easily in the front squat. https://youtu.be/NvuPZPb705Q

Feel free to post that video though and I'll take a look.

[GJS]

One thing that puts me off is being able to get to an arbitrary standard - most people you can compare with seem to use a standard deadlift. I wouldn't want to do X amount of weight with the hex bar and not be able to directly compare with others. For my height/weight/frame (lightly built - think runner/cyclist really who has put on some muscle) I have this goal in mind of being able to do 400lbs. Current PB is around 300lbs but I do feel there is plenty of low hanging fruit.

This might be useful. The numbers presented across most of the exercises I've checked on the site seem not unreasonable.

https://strengthlevel.com/strength-stan ... r-deadlift

My take: If you're reasonably proficient in both lifts you might expect the low handle trap bar lift to be about 10% higher than the conventional. (For high handle perhaps add an additional 10%-15% to the low handle lift. This broadly works for me and others I've spoken with.)

[Gammmmo]

1. I'd rather see how your erg results stack up

2. You will be in good company with many a long-femured rower if front squats feel significantly more comfortable than back squats. I've found it very rare for rowers over 6'3 or 6'4 to be able to reach parallel depth with good technique in a barbell back squat, but many of these rowers can do so easily in a front squat. Here's an old video with a former rower who was around 6'5. You can see where he really struggles in the back squat, but descends more easily in the front squat. https://youtu.be/NvuPZPb705Q

Feel free to post that video though and I'll take a look.

Yes, the issue I have from the video is not keeping my chest up and keeping the body more inline/vertical. I will experiment with that and the front squat and report back.

Cheers Gary, good link that. Very succinct. Quite a big drop for the 50-59 age group from the previous one! I'm 47 so no spring chicken...upside compare with my 20s is I never lifted in earnest then but downside is I get more residual issues e.g. sore elbows from lfiting - which I am experimenting with glucosamine/chrondroitin to offset. I absolutely do think some of the degredation with some people is down to pure mentality i.e. "I'm getting old so therefore I expect to do less" or a very defeatist attitude e.g. don't have enough time, I like to stay within my comfort zone etc.

[Gammmmo]

Will, what do you think about goblet squats? I think these might be a good idea if one had access to dumbells heavy enough and the main benefit I can see is safety i.e. easy to bail out if you fail.

[StrengthCoachWill]

Will, what do you think about goblet squats? I think these might be a good idea if one had access to dumbells heavy enough and the main benefit I can see is safety i.e. easy to bail out if you fail.

I'm a fan. You noted the major limitation with them, though, having consistent access to dumbbells/kettlebells heavy enough to continue to be challenging. I tend to use them with early novices to teach the squat, then we move on to the front squat. I think the front squat is equivalently easy to bail on if you're using bumper plates and/or a rack with spotter arms. Practice it once or twice if you need to.

[GJS]

I'm 47 so no spring chicken...upside compare with my 20s is I never lifted in earnest then but downside is I get more residual issues e.g. sore elbows from lfiting - which I am experimenting with glucosamine/chrondroitin to offset. I absolutely do think some of the degredation with some people is down to pure mentality i.e. "I'm getting old so therefore I expect to do less" or a very defeatist attitude e.g. don't have enough time, I like to stay within my comfort zone etc.

I'm not far behind you in terms of years and - alongside judicious load mangement - have found that varying exercises does a great job of minimising those nagging aches and pains. That's not a call for a lunatic switching of exercises every session or every week but rather involves switching to a different exercise within that movement pattern when progress has stalled, pains have aggregated, psychological staleness has set in.

After a few mesocycles of chin-ups one might switch to pull-ups, from hex bar deadlift to sumo, from squat to front squat etc etc. The changes may be subtler still: from deadlifts to deficit deadlifts, from high bar to low bar squats etc. Naturally, those lifts that one is most keen to progress should feature more often but these slight variations, stressing the tissues in a subtly different fashion, shouldn't be overlooked as a means of managing middle-aged fragility.

[StrengthCoachWill]

I'm not far behind you in terms of years and - alongside judicious load mangement - have found that varying exercises does a great job of minimising those nagging aches and pains. That's not a call for a lunatic switching of exercises every session or every week but rather involves switching to a different exercise within that movement pattern when progress has stalled, pains have aggregated, psychological staleness has set in.

After a few mesocycles of chin-ups one might switch to pull-ups, from hex bar deadlift to sumo, from squat to front squat etc etc. The changes may be subtler still: from deadlifts to deficit deadlifts, from high bar to low bar squats etc. Naturally, those lifts that one is most keen to progress should feature more often but these slight variations, stressing the tissues in a subtly different fashion, shouldn't be overlooked as a means of managing middle-aged fragility.

GJS, I'm definitely with you on increasing variety to avoid staleness, mental frustration, and injury risk. I typically alternate exercises Week A/Week B for the majority of the training year for this reason. No need to hammer away at 2-3 lifts year-round when many will get the job done, introduce some productive variety, and be more interesting for the athlete. Sumo deadlift I'm not a fan of only because it's a fairly technical lift, easy to do wrong and strain a groin (esp. for rowers), and I don't see the wide stance carrying over to rowing. Same problems with low bar squat. One form of variety I'll use as well is pausing the lifts, so we might rotate paused high bar squat, paused front squat, then non-paused high bar squat, non-paused front squat. I've also found that masters in particular often don't need to squat AND deadlift once per week each, so we might just alternate Week A deadlift-focus (single-leg squat as assistance) with Week B squat-focus (Romanian DL assistance).

[ukaserex]

Here's a question that likely doesn't have a real answer, but I'll never know if I don't ask.

I'm 52, and since I started rowing, I've lost 45-50 pounds, and have settled into a 205-210 pound range, and am 5'10". I think it's safe to say I've been rowing for a bit over a year on the Concept 2.

My 2k time best is currently 6:38.4 (completed on Feb. 2 ) - and there's a time trial in a few weeks, followed by another 500m, 2k and a series of 100m challenges the following week.

My first 2k time was 7:45, which occurred in March of 2018. I was told that eventually, I might plateau, but so far, this hasn't happened. That said, it's always been 3-4 months in between attempts. This time, it's just going to be 6 weeks, roughly. My confidence in improving my time (I really think I outdid myself in the last one, surpassing my goal by a few seconds) is a little shaky given the shorter interval. My goal was to break 6:30 by June, and I think 6:35 may just barely be doable.

Is it reasonable to improve within 6 weeks, given a solid diet, and a lot of rowing? (10k a day, at least - a mix of steady state in UT1, UT2, and sprints - pretty much the same stuff I've been doing all year.)

[StrengthCoachWill]

Here's a question that likely doesn't have a real answer, but I'll never know if I don't ask.

I'm 52, and since I started rowing, I've lost 45-50 pounds, and have settled into a 205-210 pound range, and am 5'10". I think it's safe to say I've been rowing for a bit over a year on the Concept 2.

My 2k time best is currently 6:38.4 (completed on Feb. 2 ) - and there's a time trial in a few weeks, followed by another 500m, 2k and a series of 100m challenges the following week.

My first 2k time was 7:45, which occurred in March of 2018. I was told that eventually, I might plateau, but so far, this hasn't happened. That said, it's always been 3-4 months in between attempts. This time, it's just going to be 6 weeks, roughly. My confidence in improving my time (I really think I outdid myself in the last one, surpassing my goal by a few seconds) is a little shaky given the shorter interval. My goal was to break 6:30 by June, and I think 6:35 may just barely be doable.

Is it reasonable to improve within 6 weeks, given a solid diet, and a lot of rowing? (10k a day, at least - a mix of steady state in UT1, UT2, and sprints - pretty much the same stuff I've been doing all year.)

Ukaserex,

Yes, the only way to truly answer this question is by training for 6 weeks and giving it your best. Improvement certainly is possible in 6 weeks. Perhaps 8 seconds of improvement is a reach, but if you took 1-2 seconds off your PR every 6 weeks, you'd be in pretty good shape in a year

It's also fine to pull a test piece for the experience alone. Not every test needs to be a PR, especially if you're just doing it in training (ie. not at a formal competition). You can still learn from it and use that information to improve your training and next test. In my own strength training, I will hit "heavy singles" where my goal is just to work up to a heavy set of 1, without caring if it's a PR 1RM or not. I tend to leave the truly maximal stuff for competitions.

[Gammmmo]

Is it reasonable to improve within 6 weeks, given a solid diet, and a lot of rowing? (10k a day, at least - a mix of steady state in UT1, UT2, and sprints - pretty much the same stuff I've been doing all year.)

2 questions:

1. how much are you of a responder?
2. how is your training going to differ in the 6 weeks?

[ukaserex]

Not sure I understand the first question. A responder to what?

As far as training, the only real difference will be ensuring I get 3 days of "active recovery" - just a few 2-5k rows a day, easy pace, no special rate - prior to the event.

I don't normally take rest days, even though I probably could benefit from them. I just consider the low intensity rows, even though they're longer than the sprint and shorter interval workouts, as active recovery. And, well, I really like rowing!