Noob would like some feedback please

[Neorticros]

It's been posted before on the forum, but maybe this video could help you a bit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQ0Mqlk_Lo

That Peter dude seems to know what he is talking about. It all boils down to beautiful curves

[Ombrax]

Hey James, thanks for this. What is Rating?

[/rant] As an engineer it bugs me to no end when people use the term "rating" in place of what they should say, which is "stroke rate" or, if they wanted to abbreviate, I could live with SPM [/end rant]

From an online dictionary:

Definition of rating

1 : a classification according to grade; specifically : a military or naval specialist classification

2 chiefly British : a naval enlisted man

3 a : relative estimate or evaluation : standing the school has a good academic rating
b : an estimate of an individual's or business's credit and responsibility
c : an estimate of the percentage of the public listening to or viewing a particular radio or television program

4 : a stated operating limit of a machine expressible in power units (such as kilowatts of a direct-current generator) or in characteristics (such as voltage)

[Paul N]

I really need to work on slowing the recovery so that I get to the catch and don't pause.

It's a technique issue. Most newbies row too fast, so not uncommon.

Here's how I slow my rate: The drive is the same; good strong catch position, push hard with the legs, open the hips, finish with the arms. The "trick" to a slower recovery is to push the arms away quickly (you don't have to punch them forward, just a quicker away movement), then lean forward from the hips so that now you are in the catch position with your upper body. Your legs at this point are still straight. Now that you're in the catch position, you can start bending your knees as fast or slowly as you want to vary the rate. You're already set for the start of the next drive as soon as your knees are fully bent (shins vertical).

There is no pausing at either end of the stroke, it's all controlled by how fast or slow you bend your knees on the recovery.

Looks like you're off to a good start in this rowing thing, it'll come with practice. Have fun!

One of the best videos I have seen is this "Pause Body Over" drill:

https://vimeo.com/220087092

I have heard it is very important to be able to get into that position before returning with the legs. I have tried practicing it but find it extremely difficult - the arms away bit is easy, but the seat wants to go forward with the body swing! Lots of other good videos on that site and their instagram too.

[Psychopasta]

Thanks again everyone. My next workout is 5mins on/2 mins rest repeated four times. We'll see how that goes!

I think I now see why Peter Dreis. says that a damper of 10 lets you be lazy with the legs. As I understand, the damped does not affect the resistance of the machine to the cable being pulled, but affects how quickly the flywheel slows down. Do a damper set on 10 slows the flywheel more, making it easier for you to 'catch up' with the flywheel at the start of the next stroke. Conversely, a damper setting of 1 means the flywheel is still spinning fast as you start the next stroke, so you really need to explode the legs to get back up to flywheel speed.

And that's why they call it 'the Catch': you are catching up with the existing momentum of the flywheel/boat at the start of the stroke. Have I got that right?

- Mark

[Dangerscouse]

Yep, I believe you have got it right Mark.

I always used to row on damper setting of ten years ago and that's probably why I used to be far too upper body dominant. I do prefer it with some resistance so make sure you find what resistance is right for you, it's very subjective.

Good call with the intervals. Get your technique perfected and then start to increase distance, pace etc.

[hjs]

Thanks again everyone. My next workout is 5mins on/2 mins rest repeated four times. We'll see how that goes!

I think I now see why Peter Dreis. says that a damper of 10 lets you be lazy with the legs. As I understand, the damped does not affect the resistance of the machine to the cable being pulled, but affects how quickly the flywheel slows down. Do a damper set on 10 slows the flywheel more, making it easier for you to 'catch up' with the flywheel at the start of the next stroke. Conversely, a damper setting of 1 means the flywheel is still spinning fast as you start the next stroke, so you really need to explode the legs to get back up to flywheel speed.

And that's why they call it 'the Catch': you are catching up with the existing momentum of the flywheel/boat at the start of the stroke. Have I got that right?

- Mark

Yes, if you use a proper stroke setting10, drag 200 plus is impossible to use, you would go way to fast. Only a slow sloppy drive or really fast sprints, paces below 1.10 use high drag.

[Psychopasta]

OK, so here's how it's going:


Interval 1 is warmup and 6 is cooldown. That's when I do arms only/legs only etc exercises. Intervals 2-5 are the 'real thing'


Target SPM was 21, and I achieved that as an average, but with a bit of variability


I think I'm still clumsy with the hips. I think I either don't open enough, or I open waaay too much. I also think I need to focus on keeping my power delivery more constant. An average of 90 is fine, but look at how much is varies:


The good news was that the form stayed far more constant over the whole workout than when I did a solid 30'. So overall, I think I'll do this workout three times this week and then see how much I can improve the variability of the power whilst maintaining 21 SPM and keeping form. Thoughts?

- Mark

[mitchel674]

Well, you continue to improve with your power. Now around 90 watts. The variability you see here will decrease as you put more hours in on the erg.

Continue to focus on your stroke at these low SPM sessions. Attention to technique now will only help you in the future.

[Dangerscouse]

I think with more practice you will iron out the imperfections, so continue with it as you suggest and concentrate on keeping it smooth and strong. It shouldn't be jerky and disjointed.

As Mitchel says your power has increased which is good and as your fitness improves it will become easier to maintain constant, and improved, power

[Psychopasta]

Well, things continue to improve and I'm now (just) over 100W average power. I'm doing 990 m in five minutes at 21-23 SPM. That's good progress for me. Still need to work on not speeding up as I tire. I never thought going slowly would be so difficult

- Mark

[Psychopasta]

I'm continuing to improve, thanks for all the coaching I've had peeps!

So I'm doing 6x of 5 mins rowing, 2 mins rest, target 21 SPM. The first and last reps are warm up and cool down respectively.

Where I am now, compared to a week ago:

5811 meters compared to 5466
2:34.8 pace compared to 2:44.6
22 compared to 23 SPM. I really need to stop speeding up as I tire. 'tis a silly thing to do
670 compared to 710 total strokes
.92 compared to .85 drive length
4.3 compared to 3.4 Stroke Power Index

So I'm pleased. The progress has come from focusing on the technique first, then SPM, then average power by pushing harder with the legs. I really can feel the difference in my body when I row correctly.

I'll keep on this regimen until Tuesday. Then I fly to the UK for a week and a half, and I probably won't have access to an erg. When I get back, I'll start this workout again for a few days and then I'm planning to start the BPP. Any comments on that? Or should I stay technique focused until I achieve some specific metrics?

Cheers,

= Mark

[Dangerscouse]

I don't know about the BPP but I do know that you have made some very impressive gains in just a week

Don't under estimate how much 10 days without rowing will effect you. I use a rough rule of double the the time to get back to where I was with anything more than a week away from rowing. So don't be surprised if it takes you a 2-3 weeks until you feel ready.

[Psychopasta]

Hi everyone,

So, I'm making good progress but I wanted to check about my SPM. I am sticking religiously to 21 SPM, and have started the BPP now. Pete does not give specific guidance on SPM. Should I just stick at 21, or target some other?

- Mark

[RayOfSunshine]

Hi everyone,

So, I'm making good progress but I wanted to check about my SPM. I am sticking religiously to 21 SPM, and have started the BPP now. Pete does not give specific guidance on SPM. Should I just stick at 21, or target some other?

- Mark

I'm on week 14 of BPP. Starting in week 7, they will tell you to back your SPM down to 24 or below on the longer steady state rows if you're not already there. I suggest going with whatever feels comfortable while focusing on technique (including breathing) and rhythm. For me, it was originally around 21-22 for the longer pieces. For intervals, it was at or slightly over the 24SPM which will be introduced in week 7. My SPMs have gone up a bit as my form and fitness level have improved.

[hjs]

Hi everyone,

So, I'm making good progress but I wanted to check about my SPM. I am sticking religiously to 21 SPM, and have started the BPP now. Pete does not give specific guidance on SPM. Should I just stick at 21, or target some other?

- Mark

No, for longer work keep the spm down, but not perse 21, mix it up a bit.
Shorter interval work is free spm, use what gives you the best result, thats certainly above 21, go by feel, the fitter you get the more strokes you can handle.