Under 7:20 now...still looking for SUB 7!

[hjs]

Proper weight training will do two things. First, it will improve your maximum output slightly (i.e. anything less than 500m). This won't do much good for you in a 2k except for maybe the first 100m and last 100m.

The second thing it does is enable your body to support a high training load (more volume and more intensity). This is what you need for a 2k. To push harder for a longer period of time. So essentially it will indirectly improve your 2k, but allowing to train more. But there is no substitute for aerobic fitness when it comes to a 2k.

Now the million dollar question.. Proper weights training

Beyond a certain strenghtlevel extra strenght does nothing for a 2k rower.

[G-dub]

Let's take it apart a little. Proper to me would be to work on weak areas - for me shoulders and lats are really weak compared to other areas. Work on areas prone to injury, imbalance injury and also to work "opposite". Do exercises that build power and also enhance hormone production - power cleans, deads, squats. Do exercises that make me feel good and provide mobility and dynamic lengthening - I'd put Kbell swings and goblet squats in here. Next?

[hjs]

Let's take it apart a little. Proper to me would be to work on weak areas - for me shoulders and lats are really weak compared to other areas. Work on areas prone to injury, imbalance injury and also to work "opposite". Do exercises that build power and also enhance hormone production - power cleans, deads, squats. Do exercises that make me feel good and provide mobility and dynamic lengthening - I'd put Kbell swings in here. Next?

Glenn, looking at your 500, you are fast enough, relative speaking, aerobic fitness is the weak link.

I have plenty of weaknesses , 2k wise aerobic fitness is certainly holding me back the most.

[lwtguy]

Proper weight training will do two things. First, it will improve your maximum output slightly (i.e. anything less than 500m). This won't do much good for you in a 2k except for maybe the first 100m and last 100m.

The second thing it does is enable your body to support a high training load (more volume and more intensity). This is what you need for a 2k. To push harder for a longer period of time. So essentially it will indirectly improve your 2k, but allowing to train more. But there is no substitute for aerobic fitness when it comes to a 2k.

Now the million dollar question.. Proper weights training

Beyond a certain strenghtlevel extra strenght does nothing for a 2k rower.

Squats, Deadlift, leg press 8-15 reps. Pull-ups, high pulls, rows 8-15 reps. Anything explosive (box jumps, hang cleans, push press, snatches) sets of 5 or less. Then do lifts for the chest, tris and shoulders to prevent imbalances. Resistance work is also great. Anything to work on flexibility is a must.

[jackarabit]

Remi, apropos of above, I'm curious what training preceded and followed the 77' HM in 2013. Were you lifting, doing xfit? Somehow I get the sense that for you erging is/was a test bed rather than a prime source of strength and fitness? Am I right in thinking that you had mastered the technical elements of erging prior to 2007 and then stopped erging for several yrs.? As we hear every day on this board, most muscle development and many very good aerobic engines are not the product of time on erg.

[hjs]

Proper weight training will do two things. First, it will improve your maximum output slightly (i.e. anything less than 500m). This won't do much good for you in a 2k except for maybe the first 100m and last 100m.

The second thing it does is enable your body to support a high training load (more volume and more intensity). This is what you need for a 2k. To push harder for a longer period of time. So essentially it will indirectly improve your 2k, but allowing to train more. But there is no substitute for aerobic fitness when it comes to a 2k.

Now the million dollar question.. Proper weights training

Beyond a certain strenghtlevel extra strenght does nothing for a 2k rower.

Squats, Deadlift, leg press 8-15 reps. Pull-ups, high pulls, rows 8-15 reps. Anything explosive (box jumps, hang cleans, push press, snatches) sets of 5 or less. Then do lifts for the chest, tris and shoulders to prevent imbalances. Resistance work is also great. Anything to work on flexibility is a must.

Murrey and Bond, among the best rowers ever, almost unbeatable, and on the erg low 5.40 2k, do zero weights.
Are you saying they would be better with extra strenght?

Explosive work? Movements are slow in rowing. Its just risky.

Flexibility? Only if you trouble at the angles you need. Working beyond those angles gives you nothing.

A general rule, we only use our energy once, anything not usefull, steeks energy from things that do help.

Ps not trying to put you down or anything, more just thinking out load.

[bisqeet]

...too many quotes - deleted them, but in reference to henry's last and the quote within...

i think the other thing is that all this explosive stuff is mostly concentrating on type2 muscle (fasttwich, a,b,x)
those muscles don't need oxygen to generate atp from glucose - they can do it anaerobically (albeit at a very shitty exchange rate 1:2).

these muscle are my last resort on aerobic pieces (> 1k) - which means if i'm using them - then the slowtwitch hare either out of oxygen (they need a lot of oxygene to convert glucose into ATP ~30:1) or not upto the load...
basically - i'm screwed and its going to get pearshaped pretty damn quick....

I want to hold those in reserve for as long as possible - seems to me it would be more efficient on holding off this phase my concentrating on building up my threshold and holding that off as much as possible...

[G-dub]

Let's take it apart a little. Proper to me would be to work on weak areas - for me shoulders and lats are really weak compared to other areas. Work on areas prone to injury, imbalance injury and also to work "opposite". Do exercises that build power and also enhance hormone production - power cleans, deads, squats. Do exercises that make me feel good and provide mobility and dynamic lengthening - I'd put Kbell swings in here. Next?

Glenn, looking at your 500, you are fast enough, relative speaking, aerobic fitness is the weak link.

I have plenty of weaknesses , 2k wise aerobic fitness is certainly holding me back the most.

Of course! I know that I have more power potential than fitness and 2K is just over the edge for me - 1K a little better. BUT I still think it makes sense to weight train as a general idea. I don't think anyone here is saying it is the dominant component of a 2K training program. My dad was a pro football player (gridiron) and back then they thought weight training was a bad idea too - apparently it made you slow and stiff (muscle bound they called it)! I suppose I want to defend weight training as a part of a good training program for the reasons mentioned. Not as a replacement for the aerobic conditioning needed. There is life during and after 2K after all.

[dwalk]

Murray and Bond are decent size guys and Murray admits that he has to use a higher stroke rate because he doesn't lift. You can be limited in your 2k by a lack of strength, see most runners. Not saying lifting is the end all be all, but you need some strength to pull the watts.

[nick rockliff]

... and that won't happen without serious time on the erg.

What is serious time on the erg? 50 km weekly? 100? 200? I'm doing around 50, and have not not close to PR'ing any distance since before the summer.

At my peak between 200k and 250k a week in about 11 sessions. Main sessions were 16k r20 with one in the morning and one in the evening. Can't seem to get more than 40k a week now

[GJS]

The answer is very clear to me.

I have reasonable time to commit to training and want to get better on the rower, would it be advisable to do resistance work? Yes.

I have a limited time to train and want to do well on the rower and also care about my long term health. Should I do resistance work? Yes.

I have a limited time to train but want to do well on the rower but am not unduly concerned about my long term health. Should I do resistance work? Well, that's a debate worth having.

Rather bold, but there you go.

Marathon runners are lifting weights. Domestiques in cycling teams are lifting weights. The 2k lasts 7 mins or so, hopefully less. Every elite rowing programme in the world includes resistance work and Murray and Bond are freaks of nature and sizeable gentlemen to boot, ok?

Murray can hold 1:25 for 6 mins. What to do you imagine he can hold for thirty seconds? A naturally strong citizen! These things happen.

Just attend to the science: resistance training tends to shift type iix fibres to iia fibres - that is from highly fatigable fast twitch to fatigue resistant fast twitch. (Endurance training does the same).

Please read this: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e750/c ... 113bd4.pdf

It is a great paper and addresses most of the questions that get asked from time to time on this topic.

[hjs]

Murray can hold 1:25 for 6 mins. What to do you imagine he can hold for thirty seconds? A naturally strong citizen! These things happen.

.

From Murray himself, he is relative pretty slow on shorter stuff, his 30 seconds score is not among the best.
He does pull a sub 15 min 5k though...

[hjs]

Murray and Bond are decent size guys and Murray admits that he has to use a higher stroke rate because he doesn't lift. You can be limited in your 2k by a lack of strength, see most runners. Not saying lifting is the end all be all, but you need some strength to pull the watts.

Is a high rated 2k worth less?

They are among rowers average build, not overly tall or heavy.

[GJS]

From Murray himself, he is relative pretty slow on shorter stuff, his 30 seconds score is not among the best.
He does pull a sub 15 min 5k though...

I know. He readily concedes many of his chums will smoke him over short distances.

But what do you reckon he can hold for say 30 secs at a non-ludicrous rate of say r40?

The answer, of course, is substantially less than 1:25...Which is to say even self-confessed slow coach Murray is holding a not massively high proportion of his maximal capacity over the 2k.

Many in this thread - me included - feel touched by the good Lord when we see 1:2x on the monitor.

[hjs]

From Murray himself, he is relative pretty slow on shorter stuff, his 30 seconds score is not among the best.
He does pull a sub 15 min 5k though...

I know. He readily concedes many of his chums will smoke him over short distances.

But what do you reckon he can hold for say 30 secs at a non-ludicrous rate of say r38?

The answer, of course, is substantially less than 1:25...Which is to say even self-confessed slow coach Murray is holding a not massively high proportion of his maximal capacity over the 2k.

Many in this thread - me included - feel touched by the good Lord when we see 1:2x on the monitor.

thats not a far comparison. If you look at your lowpull, it should be in relation to your 2k pace.

A wild guess for his 30 seconds? Think 1.15 ish. Don,t expect it to be much faster, this is including the start.


And 1.2x, me a cripple old, av height guy can pull 1.2x rate 20, not so special. His sub 1.30 5k is much much more impressive.