Can an overly long stroke be more efficient?

[hjs]

in my defence Henry, I think at least some of the others had been erging for longer and most (all?) were younger. not using that as an excuse (it's up to me to close the gap however I can and join the race ) but obviously lots of factors..

I'll post up the video from the event and people will be able to look (shudder?) at my technique

Answer was not aimed at you at all. Think you where the lightest?
It was James s answer, made no sence at all. He knew nothing about the context.

You simply need rate, I you can,t rate, you simply lack the fitness to do so. I myself also can,t rate up proper, aerobic fitness of mine is to low.

I told you before you rated low, in itself nothing wrong with, but to be really fast you proberly need a bit more rate. To do so, you need the fitness to keep it moving.

[hjs]

I personally think your erg performances speak for themselves in your sig

When you take into account how long you have actually been back into rowing, those times are remarkable.

cheers Anth, but like all endurance sports junkies, I am never 100% happy and always wanting to be at the next level. if you're in such sports to compete (and I totally understand that isn't everyone's number one reason) it's a dangerous place to be if you're not of that mindset IMO.

Thats the right attitude

[Anth_F]

I personally think your erg performances speak for themselves in your sig

When you take into account how long you have actually been back into rowing, those times are remarkable.

cheers Anth, but like all endurance sports junkies, I am never 100% happy and always wanting to be at the next level. if you're in such sports to compete (and I totally understand that isn't everyone's number one reason) it's a dangerous place to be if you're not of that mindset IMO.

Yeah i totally get that! I was just speaking in general on your current progress.

I mean i'm in it to keep fit and thats it, what everyone else does is their business. I don't ever want to learn to hate the rower by making it my nemesis. An enjoyable row, where i know i have had a good workout, for me, is the ideal combination for keeping healthy interest, and motivation

[Cyclingman1]

You simply need rate, I you can,t rate, you simply lack the fitness to do so. .... but to be really fast you proberly need a bit more rate. To do so, you need the fitness to keep it moving.

Well, Henry we totally agree on that one. Not everyone is as "weak" as me, but few can simply overpower 2K on up. Fitness is totally necessary and one cannot go up and down the slide quickly without a lot of it. No chance to recover like there is in 20r and below. Not discounting technique and power, but fitness both aerobic and anaerobic are key to fast times.

[jamesg]

Thing is, when I try to shorten the stroke (mainly not come so far forward and the rate naturally rises slightly) the aerobic demands feel higher for the same pace

That's because the total power demand is higher. Pulling more strokes at higher rating means higher inertial power losses in moving our mass, so loss of efficiency. Even only 5 or 10 Watts extra power soon makes itself felt when already borderline. Not for nothing they're called thresholds.

The basic efficiency rule on the fixed erg is drop the rating; but not so far that you have to pull harder.

Your signature indicates very good efficiency and fitness, in terms of W/kg.

[Gammmmo]

I'll post up the video from the event and people will be able to look (shudder?) at my technique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnsTLqA6CGE

I'm the guy in the background with the black top/shorts on (white Adidas stripe) still rowing between 0.27 and 0.37. Notice when they cut tothe chap at 0.38 who is also still rowing how much better his techqniue looks. One caveat - obviously that footage was towards the end of a max 5K so technique probably breaking down a bit for me (although I do note that that is something else ALSO I should work on).

[hjs]

You simply need rate, I you can,t rate, you simply lack the fitness to do so. .... but to be really fast you proberly need a bit more rate. To do so, you need the fitness to keep it moving.

Well, Henry we totally agree on that one. Not everyone is as "weak" as me, but few can simply overpower 2K on up. Fitness is totally necessary and one cannot go up and down the slide quickly without a lot of it. No chance to recover like there is in 20r and below. Not discounting technique and power, but fitness both aerobic and anaerobic are key to fast times.

Why you always bring in yourself. Nobody ever called you weak, you sprinting is RELATIVE weak. Part training, but mostly nature to blame.

Rating, all those toprowers who pull sub 5.50 pull 80/90 % of there meters all rate 18/20, this does not prevent them from pulling mid 30 spm during a race. But those meters must be ut2, nice and easy and lots..

I only once saw a guy pull around 5.50 rating 26 ish, but he was build like a gorilla. Widest shoulders/back I ever saw.

[hjs]

Thing is, when I try to shorten the stroke (mainly not come so far forward and the rate naturally rises slightly) the aerobic demands feel higher for the same pace

That's because the total power demand is higher. Pulling more strokes at higher rating means higher inertial power losses in moving our mass, so loss of efficiency. Even only 5 or 10 Watts extra power soon makes itself felt when already borderline. Not for nothing they're called thresholds.

The basic efficiency rule on the fixed erg is drop the rating; but not so far that you have to pull harder.

Your signature indicates very good efficiency and fitness, in terms of W/kg.

Not true, thats only the case if the strokes are alike. A long strike with lots of backmovement costs lots more energy than a short one where the body is kept much more straight.

[hjs]

I'll post up the video from the event and people will be able to look (shudder?) at my technique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnsTLqA6CGE

I'm the guy in the background with the black top/shorts on (white Adidas stripe) still rowing between 0.27 and 0.37. Notice when they cut tothe chap at 0.38 who is also still rowing how much better his techqniue looks. One caveat - obviously that footage was towards the end of a max 5K so technique probably breaking down a bit for me (although I do note that that is something else ALSO I should work on).

One thing, SIT UP , you sit on your tailbone and don,t rock over at all. Long limbs which give you more stroke. For the rest, difficult to tell in such a clip. The being tired at the end is a point, but I do think that sitting on your tailbone, instead of sitting up is a given. You really have room here to improve.

Seeing Sam B, I always wonder why he is do fast. Looks in nothing like a rower, short, not really lean, but .... Ff fast with his sub 6, so he aerobic fitness must be naturaly great.

[Gammmmo]

I'll post up the video from the event and people will be able to look (shudder?) at my technique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnsTLqA6CGE

I'm the guy in the background with the black top/shorts on (white Adidas stripe) still rowing between 0.27 and 0.37. Notice when they cut tothe chap at 0.38 who is also still rowing how much better his techqniue looks. One caveat - obviously that footage was towards the end of a max 5K so technique probably breaking down a bit for me (although I do note that that is something else ALSO I should work on).

One thing, SIT UP , you sit on your tailbone and don,t rock over at all. Long limbs which give you more stroke. For the rest, difficult to tell in such a clip. The being tired at the end is a point, but I do think that sitting on your tailbone, instead of sitting up is a given. You really have room here to improve.

Seeing Sam B, I always wonder why he is do fast. Looks in nothing like a rower, short, not really lean, but .... Ff fast with his sub 6, so he aerobic fitness must be naturaly great.

Cheers - I like it when people can see fixes that'll get me more speed !!
Yes, Sam is fast. I think he's sub 16min for 5K too. I believe he is an ex pro rugby player.

[hjs]

Cheers - I like it when people can see fixes that'll get me more speed !!
Yes, Sam is fast. I think he's sub 16min for 5K too. I believe he is an ex pro rugby player.

Your hips don,t start in a strong position, at least in this clip.

If I didn,t now him, I would guess his speed, he is fast all over. Any sub 6 rowers pulls monster results at almosy any distance. 9100 plus last week on the 30 min. Pb for him.

[jamesg]

A long strike with lots of backmovement

There's no such thing. The chainguard stops us front end, and the long layback is a style already abandoned when I was at school in the fifties. We get length by using a fast catch with the legs from a good posture, which reduces slack.

The video shows the usual all-in-one recovery, with no sequence, lifting hands over knees and bringing the rear up to the feet. This causes a slow catch and a weak stroke, and in fact the ratings seemed all very high, trying to compensate for such bad technique.

[hjs]

A long strike with lots of backmovement

There's no such thing.

Sure, because you say so.......

https://youtu.be/vklNvHiLZ-c

[hjs]

And a super real life example, the Kiwi double, one stays up, high rating, other big layback, lower rating.
Ofcourse just fiction, cause "you say so"

https://youtu.be/IOVmIrWZdWA

Crappy 30 spm shortish stroke gave Eric a "weak" 136.x half marathon.

[Anth_F]

Indeed, plenty of room for improvement on your technique, Paul! This is a good thing

You are leading the recovery with your legs rather than getting your torso forward first, which doesn't ever get forward in your case. Poor posture in your stroke etc! (i can now see why you are suffering back problems from the erg)

Plenty of great instructional drill videos out there to help you with this. Shane Farmer has some really excellent one's