Ranger's training thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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hjs
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by hjs » June 7th, 2011, 10:23 am

ranger wrote:
hjs wrote:Is that you? Lightweight status is really far away now. 90 kg there?
The pic was taken four years ago, in the summer of 2007.

I am about 170 lbs. now.

My weight is _very_ good.

ranger
ok, in that picture you are way above 75.
What you now are I don't know, and you won't tell, the last couple of years "fine" ment almost not able to get below 75 kg in the winter.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » June 7th, 2011, 11:12 am

hjs wrote:Lightweight status is really far away now.
No, it's not.

Then again, I am not sure that it matters anymore.

If I hit my targets, I will crush Hendershott's 60s hwt 2K WR, and beat Cashin's 55s hwt 2K WR, too.

I will also row as a heavyweight OTW.

Then, sure, if I want to, I can cut some weight and pull the same times as a lightweight, as I did in 2002-2003.

In 2002, I pulled 6:27.5 and 6:28.5 as a heavyweight.

Then in 2003, I pulled 6:28, 6:29, and 6:30 as a lightweight.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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hjs
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by hjs » June 7th, 2011, 11:37 am

ranger wrote:
hjs wrote:Lightweight status is really far away now.
No, it's not.

Then again, I am not sure that it matters anymore.

ranger
Agree, your racing days are over so the number 75 is something from the past for you.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mikvan52 » June 7th, 2011, 3:07 pm

ranger wrote:
hjs wrote:Lightweight status is really far away now.
No, it's not.

Then again, I am not sure that it matters anymore.

If I hit my targets, I will crush Hendershott's 60s hwt 2K WR, and beat Cashin's 55s hwt 2K WR, too.

I will also row as a heavyweight OTW.

ranger
ranger's musings are now so very far from reality!

an amazing likeness to Elskid!

Now that TSO is simultaneously, in his words, "a little lightweight" and "big" enough to crush Hendershott's (sic) and Cashin's WRs we know he's trying to "hose" us... :lol: :lol:

When's the first race he's going to complete OTW?? :roll:

"will" is Batt-man code for "never will"
(you've got to have an official ranger decoder ring (only $29.99 plus postage and handling) from Kenner!
3 Crash-B hammers
American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
62 yrs, 160 lbs, 6' ...

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » June 7th, 2011, 3:16 pm

mikvan52 wrote:Now that TSO is simultaneously, in his words, "a little lightweight" and "big" enough to crush Hendershott's (sic) and Cashin's WRs we know he's trying to "hose" us...
Hey, I can't help it if my competition has slowed down twenty to forty seconds in the ten years from 50 to 60 while I have gotten a dozen seconds better.

At 50, I was twenty seconds slower than Tore Foss. He pulled 6:11; I pulled 6:30.

Now, at 60, he pulls 6:50 and my target is 6:16.

Quite a swing.

Tore is _huge_.

I am just a little guy.

In a geriatric ward, weight is not a crucial issue.

The more important issues are prostate cancer, arthritis, dementia, high blood pressure, heart failure, blindness, hip replacement, etc.

A whole raft of obits in the NY Times today checked out at 60.

Life is hard.

Then you die.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ben990 » June 7th, 2011, 3:49 pm

ranger wrote:
mikvan52 wrote:Now that TSO is simultaneously, in his words, "a little lightweight" and "big" enough to crush Hendershott's (sic) and Cashin's WRs we know he's trying to "hose" us...
Hey, I can't help it if my competition has slowed down twenty to forty seconds in the ten years from 50 to 60 while I have slowed down even more.

At 50, I was twenty seconds slower than Tore Foss. He pulled 6:11; I pulled 6:30.

Now, at 60, he pulls 6:50 and I now pull 7:02.3.

Quite a swing.

Tore is _huge_.

I am just a little guy who drinks a lot and can't make weight anymore.

In a geriatric ward, weight is not a crucial issue.

The more important issues are prostate cancer, arthritis, dementia, high blood pressure, heart failure, blindness, hip replacement, etc.

A whole raft of obits in the NY Times today checked out at 60.

Life is hard.

Then you die.

ranger
I fixed what you wrote. You're welcome.
Rich Cureton M 60 hwt 5'11" 180 lbs. 7:02.3 (lwt) 2K

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by whp4 » June 7th, 2011, 4:04 pm

ranger wrote:
mikvan52 wrote:Now that TSO is simultaneously, in his words, "a little lightweight" and "big" enough to crush Hendershott's (sic) and Cashin's WRs we know he's trying to "hose" us...
Hey, I can't help it if my competition has slowed down twenty to forty seconds in the ten years from 50 to 60 while I have gotten a dozen seconds better.
The only thing you've "improved" is your goal. Actual rowing has gotten much, much slower. Fortunately for you, setting a new goal just entails picking a number out of the air, which is one of the few things that you can still manage. Your rallying cry of "but I didn't even prepare!" probably applies much more to your competition than to you. Most of the rest of us have lives that are a bit more interesting than sitting around in the basement dreaming of future glory on a piece of exercise equipment, and we allocate our time and energy accordingly. You continue your flights of fantasy on the forum because it appears to be the only way in which you can get any attention now that you are being put out to pasture.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by PaulH » June 7th, 2011, 4:29 pm

ranger wrote: At 50, I was twenty seconds slower than Tore Foss. He pulled 6:11; I pulled 6:30.

Now, at 60, he pulls 6:50 and my target is 6:16.
But that's not a fair comparison - I've heard* that his target is 6:11, hence he's over a second per 500m faster than you.


(*I just made it up, actually, but go with it)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by JohnBove » June 7th, 2011, 4:51 pm

whp4 wrote:Your rallying cry of "but I didn't even prepare!" probably applies much more to your competition than to you.
About time someone pointed out this bit of nonsense, the implication that everyone else was fully prepared, whatever the hell that means. Since the narcissist hasn't been able to get fully trained on a piece of gym equipment in what would be the run-up to two Olympics, it should be a given that no one else has either, particularly, according to him, given the boneheaded flaws in their training methods.

Still, his lying and baseless self-aggrandizement, his grotesque mental problems, all annoy me less than his welshing and his shameless winking dance around that fact. A scumbag of the lowest order.

And sports are not arts.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by lancs » June 7th, 2011, 4:53 pm

PaulH wrote:But that's not a fair comparison - I've heard* that his target is 6:11, hence he's over a second per 500m faster than you.

(*I just made it up, actually, but go with it)
You're way off Paul. He's actually aiming for a 5:58 this year and he's delighted with how his training is going. Right on track apparently.

I'm also on-track to beat the lwt open WR at some point this year*

*In the same way that Ranger is 'on-track'.. ie nowhere in the same vicinity as it. Although having said that, I have the same amount of evidence as Ranger to support my claim as he does his. None whatsoever. Not one bit. Zero. Zilch.

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hjs
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by hjs » June 8th, 2011, 3:58 am

JohnBove wrote:
whp4 wrote:Your rallying cry of "but I didn't even prepare!" probably applies much more to your competition than to you.
About time someone pointed out this bit of nonsense, the implication that everyone else was fully prepared, whatever the hell that means. Since the narcissist hasn't been able to get fully trained on a piece of gym equipment in what would be the run-up to two Olympics, it should be a given that no one else has either, particularly, according to him, given the boneheaded flaws in their training methods.

Still, his lying and baseless self-aggrandizement, his grotesque mental problems, all annoy me less than his welshing and his shameless winking dance around that fact. A scumbag of the lowest order.

And sports are not arts.
I simply don't get it when people hold back :lol:

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » June 8th, 2011, 4:05 am

If you want to row, rather than just get fit using rowing, I would suggest this regimen as a training plan.

(A) Never use rowing just to improve your fitness. If you do, you'll never reach your potential as a rower. Sure, you'll get fit, but end up rowing badly. Rowing badly vs. rowing well is worth 10 seconds per 500 across all of the distances, a _gigantic_ margin that is large enough to convert anyone from one of the worst rowers to one of the best. If you aren't fit (e.g., because you are old, or because you have been a couch potato for a decade or two, or because you are young and have never had any experience with doing something that taxes your skeletal-motor and physiological capacities, etc.), get fit in other ways. Run, skip, bike, step, swim--a lot--a couple hours a day. Work easily at first, but long, and then work up to exerting yourself to the limit of your endurance, aerobic capacity, skeletal-motor abilities, etc. in as many ways as possible using your entire body. The most efficient way to do this, probably, is just hard, totally exhausting physical labor--chopping down trees, digging holes, carrying rocks, hiking mountains with a 50-lb. pack, etc.

(B) Always use rowing to improve your rowing. Make a checklist of the major things you must do in the stroke cycle to row well for your weight (13 SPI for lightweights, 16 SPI for heavyweights). These might be included in your list.

(1) Get good length. Get all the way to shins vertical at the catch. The front of your seat should be only six inches from front stops when you fire off with your legs.

(2) Keep your hips/back forward at a good angle when you fire off with your legs. Hold that angle until your legs are done. At this point, the handle should be over your feet.

(3) Get your weight securely up on the balls of your feet at the catch, driving with your quads. Do _not_ take the catch with your heels and hams.

(4) Relax your shoulders at the catch.

(5) Relax your core at the catch.

(6) After about .1 seconds set your heels and stand up on the footplate, flattening your legs out with your hams. As in (2), at this point, the handle should be over your feet.

(7) Open your hips and swing your back with your core.

(8) While you are swinging your back, roll back up onto the balls of your feet and drive down on the footplate with the front of your foot using your calves.

(9) Keep your shoulders relaxed even though you have engaged your core, back, and calves.

(10) Pull through with your arms into your chest.

(11) Keep your elbows level as you pull the handle into your chest.

(11) Get a substantial lean with your back at the finish.

(12) Keep in good contact with the footplate at the finish. Point your toes and push the footplate away from you by digging in with your toes.

(13) Recover your arms as quickly as they finish.

(14) When you recover your arms, sit up tall and push the handle down toward your knees.

(15) Keep your knees flat on the rail until the handle sweeps past them.

(16) Recover your back as quick and fully as you did when you engaged it in the drive, returning to shins vertical (Prep Position). As in (2) and (6), at this point the handle should be over your feet, legs flat on the rail.

(17) The movements from (1) to (16) should be _very_ fast, 3/8 of the stroke cycle, at the most. If you count "And-ONE-and-TWO-and-THREE-and-FOUR" as you do the stroke cycle as a whole, execute the movements from (1) to (16) in the first three pulses of this counting/beating: "And-ONE-and."

(18) Set you heels firmly when as you get into prep position.

(19) Break your knees and move the seat slowly toward the catch.

(20) As you do this, roll your weight slowly from your heels to the balls of your feet.

If technique in rowing is worth about 10 seconds per 500m, then as an approximation, each of these 20 technical points, I think, miight be worth a couple of seconds over 2K (.5 seconds per 500m).

All twenty of these technical points, taken together and mastered completely, are worth forty seconds over 2K (10 seconds per 500m).

When you get on the erg, your task in training is to master these things.

Each time you row, work on one of these twenty things, or some subset of these twenty things, that you know you do poorly, until you have mastered them all.

Put in 20K a session.

If you are fit, master all of these technical aspects of rowing, and are a big lightweight (e.g., 6', 165 lbs., right at the weight limit), you should pull a nice 1:43 @ 25 spm (13 SPI), just naturally.

If you are fit, master all of these technical aspects of rowing, and are a big heavyweight (e.g., 6'5", 220 lbs.), you should pull a nice 1:36 @ 25 spm (16 SPI), just naturally.

You are now one of the best rowers in the world.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on June 8th, 2011, 5:43 am, edited 6 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » June 8th, 2011, 4:15 am

whp4 wrote:Most of the rest of us have lives that are a bit more interesting than sitting around in the basement dreaming of future glory on a piece of exercise equipment, and we allocate our time and energy accordingly.
Yes, I spend a _lot_ of time rowing and thinking about rowing, about five hours a day.

But I am done with rowing, both OTErg and OTW by 8 a.m.

I go to bed about 9 p.m.

So, that gives me 13 hours for other things.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » June 8th, 2011, 4:21 am

JohnBove wrote:
whp4 wrote:Your rallying cry of "but I didn't even prepare!" probably applies much more to your competition than to you.
About time someone pointed out this bit of nonsense, the implication that everyone else was fully prepared, whatever the hell that means
You don't understand?

I am happy to explain.

By saying that I didn't prepare, I mean that I did no distance trials or anaerobic intervals in my training before I raced.

I just trained at low rates and mild/UT1/sub-threshold heart rates.

I did no work at AT, TR, and/or AN.

Does everyone who races at WR pace for their age and weight do distance trials and anaerobic intervals (AT, TR, and AN work) to prepare for their 2Ks?

Yes.

Quality 2Ks are _severely_ anaerobic.

No one rows WR-level 2Ks without preparing for them.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by PaulH » June 8th, 2011, 4:30 am

ranger wrote: (2) Keep your hips/back forward at a good angle when you fire off with your legs. Hold that angle until your legs are done. At this point, the handle should be over your feet.
Anyone want to comment on this snippet of advice?

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