Ranger's training thread

[JimR]

If two rowers are putzing along at the same rate, say, 24 spm, and exerting about the same effort, say 75% HRR, but one rower is pulling 12 MPS and the other 10 MPS, every four strokes the rower who is pulling 12 MPS will gain a boat length on the rower who is pulling 10 MPS.

If the race is 4000 strokes long, by the end, the rower who is pulling 12 MPS will be 1000 boat lengths ahead of the rower who is pulling 10 MPS.

Rowing is all about technique and stroking power.

ranger

But if one of those rowers keeps stopping to catch their breath (you) and the other doesn't (MVB) then it is very likely the "slower" rower will win.

Oh wait, this is also what happened at BIRC 2010 isn't it?! I think we see what your training has delivered.

Poor investment strategy ... all talk, no action.

JimR

[ranger]

Gorgeous spring morning here in Ann Arbor--warm, calm, clear.

Nice 10K OTW, after 10K OTErg.

I am indeed getting _much_ better OTW.

Five seconds per 500m better than last year?

Better catches.

I am right at 20 seconds per 500m over my erg paces and rates.

1:44 @ 24 spm (13 SPI) OTErg.

2:04 @ 24 spm OTW.

2:00 @ 25 spm is that 8 SPI at 10 MPS I am looking for.

Not there yet, but I continue to make progress.

ranger

[ranger]

But if one of those rowers keeps stopping to catch their breath (you) and the other doesn't (MVB) then it is very likely the "slower" rower will win.

My FM pb is 1:54.

Joe's FM was about 2:03 pace.

My FM goal now is 1:48.

Sure, how to improve your FM time is an important issue.

By and large, once you have the endurance to make it to the end, a FM tests your technical effectiveness and efficiency, your technique and stroking power.

Ten years ago, I pulled a FM at 10 SPI.

Now, I'll pull a FM at 12 SPI.

Same rate and heart rate, about 24 spm.

The difference is six seconds per 500m.

ranger

[snowleopard]

My FM pb is 1:54.

No evidence for that.

Joe's FM was about 2:03 pace.

What's your best FM @ 60+ lwt?

[JimR]

But if one of those rowers keeps stopping to catch their breath (you) and the other doesn't (MVB) then it is very likely the "slower" rower will win.

My FM pb is 1:54.

Joe's FM was about 2:03 pace.

My FM goal now is 1:48.

Sure, how to improve your FM time is an important issue.

By and large, once you have the endurance to make it to the end, a FM tests your technical effectiveness and efficiency, your technique and stroking power.

Ten years ago, I pulled a FM at 10 SPI.

Now, I'll pull a FM at 12 SPI.

Same rate and heart rate, about 24 spm.

The difference is six seconds per 500m.

ranger

My point exactly ... you don't have the endurance to do a 1:48 FM ... so you take breaks. Most people would consider "endurance" and "fitness" to be the same general idea. Since you can't improve your fitnes as you have said ad nauseum you can't do a 1:48 FM ... even though you have done an FM in the past (or so you claim).

JimR

[ranger]

What's your best FM @ 60+ lwt?

We'll soon see.

A FM is done at 2K + 14.

To do 1:54, Joe will have to be capable of a 1:40/6:40 2K.

To do 1:48, I will have to be capable of a 1:34/6:16 2K.

A 2:03 FM predicts a 1:49/7:16 2K.

There is no mystery in this.

By and large, a FM tests your technique and stroking power.

And by and large, your 2K is only as good as your technique and stroking power, your skeletal-muscular capacities and skills.

Joe has excellent aerobic capacity.

At 62 years old, doing a FM with a 155 bpm HR is impressive.

That suggests a maxHR of 190 bpm.

ranger

[bellboy]

What's your best FM @ 60+ lwt?

We'll soon see.

A FM is done at 2K + 14.

To do 1:54, Joe will have to be capable of a 1:40/6:40 2K.

To do 1:48, I will have to be capable of a 1:34/6:16 2K.

A 2:03 FM predicts a 1:49/7:16 2K.

ranger

We'll soon see? NO_WE_WON'T

[ranger]

you don't have the endurance to do a 1:48 FM

At 12 SPI?

Right now?

True.

That's why I am putting in the meters, stretching out the distance.

If I can get to a daily regimen this summer of 20K OTErg followed by 20K OTW, the game is won.

No 60s lwt has come anywhere near 12 SPI OTErg for a FM.

The technical and skeletal-muscular challenge is considerable.

Joe's 8 SPI is the norm.

I have no problem with HR, though.

I now pull 1:48 @ 24 spm, steady state, at 75% HRR (155 bpm).

Rowing is primarily technical and skeletal-muscular.

It is only peripherally aerobic, as Joe has just demonstrated.

ranger

[snowleopard]

I now pull 1:48 @ 24 spm, steady state, at 75% HRR (155 bpm).

Row 1 x 500m 1:48 @ 24 spm and post the HR data.

You are aware I take it that "steady state" is 30+ mins of continuous rowing? Stopping each time your HR exceeds 155 bpm is not steady state.

[ranger]

I now pull 1:48 @ 24 spm, steady state, at 75% HRR (155 bpm).

Row 1 x 500m 1:48 @ 24 spm and post the HR data.

You are aware I take it that "steady state" is 30+ mins of continuous rowing? Stopping each time your HR exceeds 155 bpm is not steady state.

I row 1:48 @ 24 spm, steady state, at a 155 bpm HR.

I suspect that I could do a HM now, perhaps 30K.

I need to put in some more meters to get to 42K.

Even rowing badly at max drag, back in 2002-2003, I did the _third_ 10K of my FM trial at 1:48, albeit at 10 SPI.

ranger

[snowleopard]

Even rowing badly at max drag, back in 2002-2003, I did the _third_ 10K of my FM trial at 1:48, albeit at 10 SPI.

No evidence for that.

It is absurd for you to suggest that you can row a HM at 1:48 at any stroke rate. HR details are irrelevant since you can't even row 5K at 1:48 at any stroke rate.

So, go ahead, row a 1 x 500m 1:48 @ 24 spm. Set up 100m splits and let's see the HR data.

[ranger]

Set up 100m splits and let's see the HR data.

Sure.

But my HR probably won't even get to 140 bpm in 40 strokes.

It takes a while to heat up and get to steady state.

On my bike or a stepper, my HR doesn't get to steady state for an hour.

It drifts up from 135 bpm to 155 bpm for the first hour, then rides along there for the second hour (and third).

I assume the same for the erg.

ranger

[ranger]

It is absurd for you to suggest that you can row a HM at 1:48 at any stroke rate

No, it isn't.

1:44 would be a challenge, but 1:48 is in the bag.

To do 1:48, I might only have to rate 23 spm.

With my drive time of .5 seconds, that's well _above_ a 4-to-1 ratio.

ranger

[kini62]

It is only peripherally aerobic, as Joe has just demonstrated.

ranger

Are you really this clueless? Or do you just like talking out your sphincter to get a rise out of everybody?

If you think different show us how fast and far you can go with a garrote around your neck nice and tight.

[snowleopard]

Set up 100m splits and let's see the HR data.

Sure.

But my HR probably won't even get to 140 bpm in 40 strokes.

It takes a while to heat up and get to steady state.

On my bike or a stepper, my HR doesn't get to steady state for an hour.

It drifts up from 135 bpm to 155 bpm for the first hour, then rides along there for the second hour (and third).

I assume the same for the erg.

OK. Row 1 x 2500m 1:48 @ 24 spm and post the HR data.