6:28 2K

Steve G · Post by **Steve G** » December 31st, 2009, 6:31 am

Rich
Did you make the 100 miles on your bike yesterday?

Steve

ranger · Post by **ranger** » December 31st, 2009, 6:45 am

Steve G wrote:Rich
Did you make the 100 miles on your bike yesterday?

Steve

No, I quit at 63.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » December 31st, 2009, 6:47 am

PaulH wrote:
ranger wrote:Most of what is said on these C2 fora is regulated and censored
Can you give me an example of when this has happened? I don't believe Citroen has ever censored a post of yours, and I'm pretty sure I haven't. So if your posts or anyone else's are being censored that means someone's probably hacked the forum, which would be good to know.

No need to censor anything officially, although that would undoubtedly be done, too, if it could, as it is on the UK forum.

Majority rules.

Censorship by preconceptions, blind loyalties, taboos, in-groups, and other social ills.

ranger

Steve G · Post by **Steve G** » December 31st, 2009, 6:55 am

ranger wrote:
Steve G wrote:Rich
Did you make the 100 miles on your bike yesterday?

Steve
No, I quit at 63.

ranger

Any reason Rich?

Steve

ranger · Post by **ranger** » December 31st, 2009, 6:58 am

Steve G wrote:
ranger wrote:
Steve G wrote:Rich
Did you make the 100 miles on your bike yesterday?

Steve
No, I quit at 63.

ranger
Any reason Rich?

Steve

Well, I suppose it might not be a sufficient reason to quit, but my chinning bar flew off my family room door on chin 20 or so and I flew out into the garage onto my kneecaps.

It took a while to mop up the blood and bandage my knees, and when I was done with that, I wasn't too motivated to get on my bike again.

Nice row and hour on my bike so far this morning, though.

I'll do a couple more hours on my bike before breakfast.

Biking feels a lot better without big bandages on your kneecaps.

Three hours might be enough, anyway.

Five hours is getting a bit extreme.

ranger

PaulH · Post by **PaulH** » December 31st, 2009, 7:00 am

ranger wrote:Most of what is said on these C2 fora is regulated and censored

ranger wrote:No need to officially censor anything, although that would undoubtedly be done, too, if it could, as it is on the UK forum.

Majority rules.

Censorship by preconceptions, blind loyalties, taboos, in-groups, and other social ills.

ranger

I would have expected better from an English Prof - things that are said on the forum *can't* be censored, by definition, because they've been said. The things that *haven't* been said here because of the ills you allege without evidence are the things that have (hypothetically at least) been censored. It's a beautiful language that will richly reward further study by you.

bloomp · Post by **bloomp** » December 31st, 2009, 7:42 am

ranger wrote:
PaulH wrote:
ranger wrote:Most of what is said on these C2 fora is regulated and censored
Can you give me an example of when this has happened? I don't believe Citroen has ever censored a post of yours, and I'm pretty sure I haven't. So if your posts or anyone else's are being censored that means someone's probably hacked the forum, which would be good to know.
No need to censor anything officially, although that would undoubtedly be done, too, if it could, as it is on the UK forum.

Majority rules.

Censorship by preconceptions, blind loyalties, taboos, in-groups, and other social ills.

ranger

This sounds like the argument of an 8 year old. Just because nobody likes what you have to say doesn't mean we're censoring you. You just have no support for two reasons: 1) you are a jerk to people who might have interest in what you say; and 2) you expect everyone to train to row (not just to stay in shape) and be able to pull at a certain pace without having to build up to it.

If you can't understand why people aren't receptive to your posts, talk to me at WIRC.

mikvan52 · Post by **mikvan52** » December 31st, 2009, 9:31 am

Don't get caught in the SPI trap:

Do we maintain that when an individual rows on the erg with a higher spi that more effort is involved?

Higher wattage and/or lower spm implies an answer of "YES", categorically.

However, this is not true.
Don't believe me?
Then, strap on the trusty heart rate belt an do your best on two test pieces at 30 spm and 16 spm...
You will find that at 16 spm you can get a higher spi with a lower heart rate than you can at 30 spm.

This shows the fault in regarding spi as an absolute measure of performance.

Nothing wrong with it being a rough measure over the realm of different stroke rates... but it "rewards" lower rates disproportionately.

Nice thread, Rich!

You've got everyone spinning and sputtering.

leadville · Post by **leadville** » December 31st, 2009, 9:35 am

as a newcomer to this forum, it has been entertaining to say the least.

question for ranger - what are your results in the 1x on the water? couldn't find any in a quick google search.

rjw · Post by **rjw** » December 31st, 2009, 11:34 am

ranger wrote:
PaulH wrote:
ranger wrote:Most of what is said on these C2 fora is regulated and censored
Can you give me an example of when this has happened? I don't believe Citroen has ever censored a post of yours, and I'm pretty sure I haven't. So if your posts or anyone else's are being censored that means someone's probably hacked the forum, which would be good to know.
No need to censor anything officially, although that would undoubtedly be done, too, if it could, as it is on the UK forum.

Majority rules.

Censorship by preconceptions, blind loyalties, taboos, in-groups, and other social ills.

ranger

Didn't think so!

chgoss · Post by **chgoss** » December 31st, 2009, 12:02 pm

ranger wrote:
PaulH wrote:
ranger wrote:Most of what is said on these C2 fora is regulated and censored
Can you give me an example of when this has happened? I don't believe Citroen has ever censored a post of yours, and I'm pretty sure I haven't. So if your posts or anyone else's are being censored that means someone's probably hacked the forum, which would be good to know.
No need to censor anything officially, although that would undoubtedly be done, too, if it could, as it is on the UK forum.

Majority rules.

Censorship by preconceptions, blind loyalties, taboos, in-groups, and other social ills.

ranger

Censorship
Censorship is the suppression of speech or deletion of communicative material which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient to the government or media organizations as determined by a censor.

Disagreement
1. the act, state, or fact of disagreeing.
2. lack of agreement; diversity; unlikeness: a disagreement of colors.
3. difference of opinion; dissent.
4. quarrel; dissension; argument.

ranger · Post by **ranger** » December 31st, 2009, 12:27 pm

mikvan52 wrote:Don't get caught in the SPI trap:

Do we maintain that when an individual rows on the erg with a higher spi that more effort is involved?

Higher wattage and/or lower spm implies an answer of "YES", categorically.

However, this is not true.
Don't believe me?
Then, strap on the trusty heart rate belt an do your best on two test pieces at 30 spm and 16 spm...
You will find that at 16 spm you can get a higher spi with a lower heart rate than you can at 30 spm.

This shows the fault in regarding spi as an absolute measure of performance.

Nothing wrong with it being a rough measure over the realm of different stroke rates... but it "rewards" lower rates disproportionately.

Nice thread, Rich!
You've got everyone spinning and sputtering.

I am not using SPI as a measure of performance.

I am using SPI as a concept for organizing training.

Because those the same size and age usually row a 2K at just about the same rate, in a race, SPI and pace are pretty much equivalent and therefore SPI has nothing to add to the usual talk about pace.

In a 2K, where everyone is going up and down the slide at the same rate, the rower with the highest pace/SPI wins.

As concepts for organizing training, SPI and pace are wildly different, though.

I am advocating using SPI.

The rate and pace combinations in the IP and the WP are implicitly a reference to SPI.

So why not make this explicit?

SPI is pace (in wattage) divided by rate.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » December 31st, 2009, 12:42 pm

bloomp wrote:Just because nobody likes what you have to say doesn't mean we're censoring you. You just have no support for two reasons: 1) you are a jerk to people who might have interest in what you say; and 2) you expect everyone to train to row (not just to stay in shape) and be able to pull at a certain pace without having to build up to it.

No, C2 prefers censorship to disagreement, if this is possible, as on the UK forum.

Trying to get you interested in doing what you need to do and should do is not being a jerk.

I am isolating the technical and skeletal-muscular aspects of rowing and calling these issues foundational.

Other training plans assume that aerobic capacity is the fundamental issue.

Sure, you have to work up to high levels of achievement in both.

But you don't have to subordinate one of these issues to the other, or combine them.

They can be worked on separately.

ranger

KevJGK · Post by **KevJGK** » December 31st, 2009, 1:32 pm

Silencing a disruptive child is not, per se, censorship; however, the restrictions are such that the child could easily arrive at that conclusion.

rjw · Post by **rjw** » December 31st, 2009, 2:04 pm

ranger wrote:
bloomp wrote:Just because nobody likes what you have to say doesn't mean we're censoring you. You just have no support for two reasons: 1) you are a jerk to people who might have interest in what you say; and 2) you expect everyone to train to row (not just to stay in shape) and be able to pull at a certain pace without having to build up to it.
No, C2 prefers censorship to disagreement, if this is possible, as on the UK forum.

Trying to get you interested in doing what you need to do and should do is not being a jerk.

I am isolating the technical and skeletal-muscular aspects of rowing and calling these issues foundational.

Other training plans assume that aerobic capacity is the fundamental issue.

Sure, you have to work up to high levels of achievement in both.

But you don't have to subordinate one of these issues to the other, or combine them.

They can be worked on separately.

ranger

Your training beliefs have never been censored.

Your negative attitude and lack of respect towards others, pejorative comments, general disruptive nature and turning every forum post into "all about you" on the UK forum led to your forum ban.