Ranger's training thread

[Citroen]

Be honest, you know absolutely nothing about rowing or the people in it.

Fixed.

[hjs]

Be honest, you know absolutely nothing about rowing or the people in it.

Fixed.

Is there anything he knows something about???

[Citroen]

Is there anything he knows something about???

If we ignore the bad reports on the "Rate My Professor" website then, in theory, he knows something about poetry.

He's certainly, not a mathematician, physicist or sports scientist.

[hjs]

Is there anything he knows something about???

If we ignore the bad reports on the "Rate My Professor" website then, in theory, he knows something about poetry.

He's certainly, not a mathematician, physicist or sports scientist.

I even doubt that Doug.

[Nosmo]

If you have never done this, you are just shooting your mouth off.

You don't know what you are talking about.

ranger

Now this is funny

[mikvan52]

When I am fully trained up for it in a couple of years, I think I will be able to do 1:57 for 5K OTW.

I would be delighted with that.

Does it matter that no 60 year old, even the ones who've been rowing OTW their entire lives, has ever done 1:57 avg for 5k OTW?

Evidently not!

This is the latest progress video on ranger rowing form that will take him straight the top of the gerontological heap:
(from March this year)



Note the "perfect" simultaneous body/arms/legs lunge for each catch... perfect for a good erg score but a "run killer" for the boat.
Note the vestigial chin-fillip as the prf. kicks each stroke back... sort of like chugging a Bud Light.

Watch the elbows and hands at the release: Clearly 1:57 pace material!

What about the chain vs the chain guard as the catch approaches: perfect chain diving there! Great practice for skying the blades OTW in order to miss lots of water... Brave tactic!

And ...his plan to spend the rest of 2010 focused on the erg... well: That'll produce great boat speed too... 'cuz we all know that fast erg = fast single, don't we!

[Rockin Roland]

Ranger's technique is typical of someone who spends too much time rowing on a static erg. He's rowing short inefficient strokes.

Ranger's problem starts at the catch. He's only using half the slide/rail and doesn't get his bum close enough to the heels. His shins need to be verticle at the catch but he didn't do that, not even once, in the video. Consequently he's not getting the weight onto his feet for a powerfull bunching up of the legs before a powerful push with the legs from the catch. Instead Ranger is trying to get his length at the catch by dipping his hands and taking a lunge. Try doing that in a boat and you miss about two feet of water before your blade connects with the water. By then it's too late because your legs are already half way back on the slide and the chance to use the power in your legs has passed.

At the other end of the stroke Ranger is cutting the stroke length short with a brutal premature dumping of the handle at the finish. Try that in a boat and you'll never get a chance to send the boat away with your legs for maximun boat run at the finish. Your blades would come out early and lead to an unstable boat in the recovery.

Ranger if you want to fix your technique then at least put some slides under that erg. I'd love to put you on a Rowperfect erg for at least an hour and work on your technique. Then you might have some idea of what to look and feel for when your rowing.

[ranger]

Ranger's technique is typical of someone who spends too much time rowing on a static erg. He's rowing short inefficient strokes.

No, short-sliding isn't inefficient at high drag on the erg. It can be _very_ efficient. It just isn't the best, I think, and it isn't appropriate at all OTW.

Ranger's problem starts at the catch. He's only using half the slide/rail and doesn't get his bum close enough to the heels. His shins need to be verticle at the catch but he didn't do that, not even once, in the video.

I agree entirely, but to do as you suggest, I need to row at low drag (123 df.), as I do now. When I row at low drag, as I do now, the rollers on my seat are only six inches from front stops. In the cut-sliding that I am doing in the video, the rollers on my seat are a couple of _feet_ from front stops.

Consequently he's not getting the weight onto his feet for a powerfull bunching up of the legs before a powerful push with the legs from the catch. Instead Ranger is trying to get his length at the catch by dipping his hands and taking a lunge. Try doing that in a boat and you miss about two feet of water before your blade connects with the water. By then it's too late because your legs are already half way back on the slide and the chance to use the power in your legs has passed.

I agree entirely. That's why I no longer do it.

At the other end of the stroke Ranger is cutting the stroke length short with a brutal premature dumping of the handle at the finish. Try that in a boat and you'll never get a chance to send the boat away with your legs for maximun boat run at the finish. Your blades would come out early and lead to an unstable boat in the recovery.

Ergs don't float, so your comment here is irrelevant, although I have indeed had some problems with my finishes OTW. The difficulty has not been "dumping the handle," though, but keeping my elbows in. I have now corrected this, too, which has cleaned up my blade work.

Ranger if you want to fix your technique then at least put some slides under that erg. I'd love to put you on a Rowperfect erg for at least an hour and work on your technique. Then you might have some idea of what to look and feel for when your rowing.

No need for slides. I have already fixed my technique on the points you mention. In addition to rowing on the erg, I now row every day OTW in my new Fluid. That's gives me plenty of practice with the dynamics of moving a boat with my stroke, rather than just yanking a chain to generate power.

You are again just looking at old video. I'll get some new video rowing both on the erg and OTW. Then you can make some relevant comments, if you would like, rather than continuing to comment on problems that have already been solved.

My technique at the catch is already fixed, largely by spending more time at low drag on the erg, but also by spending more time OTW.

Yesterday, I got to 2:10 @ 22 spm OTW.

For me, heck, for _any_ 60s lightweight, that is _very_ good rowing.

So, no boat-stoppping is now occurring because of my technique at the catch--at all.

As I have mentioned repeatedly, the technique that I am using in the video is designed for high drag on the erg and is not at all an OTW technique.

Anyway.

I no longer cut the slide.

I no longer row at high drag. I row at 123 df.

I have softened the catch by relaxing my shoulders at the catch, rather than tensing them.

Love these changes.

Yes, they are indeed an improvement, even for the erg.

But they are especially an improvement OTW.

2:10 @ 22 spm is 7.3 SPI

ranger

[PaulH]

My technique at the catch is already fixed

Liar

[whp4]

Ranger's technique is typical of someone who spends too much time rowing on a static erg. He's rowing short inefficient strokes.

You are again just looking at old video.

My technique at the catch is already fixed, largely by spending more time at low drag, but also with more time OTW.

ranger

if you don't like commentary on your old form, post a new video showing the new improved form. Of course, you don't do so for either erg or boat because in fact your form hasn't changed one iota, and you are still porpoising along.

[ranger]

if you don't like commentary on your old form, post a new video showing the new improved form..

Happy to.

But it will be a few days.

I am not at home. I am down in Illinois at a family wedding. I won't be back home until Sunday evening.

The erging video will be easy to get, once I am back home.

But to get OTW video, I will have to get my wife up early and down to the river at dawn, when I row, which will be more up to her than me and so might take a while.

I should be able to get these videos done in a week or so, though.

Not like the commentary?

On the contrary.

Roland's commentary is exactly right.

It is just irrelevant, because these problems have already been solved.

He is commenting on nothing--facts in the past, which in the present, are no longer facts.

ranger

[ranger]

No one gets to 2:10 @ 22 spm OTW who is stopping the boat with their technique and losing large chunks of water at the catch.

Or this:

If a 60s lwt has a technique OTW that is stopping that boat and losing large chunks of water at the catch, and nonetheless, is pulling 2:10 @ 22 spm, they only need to fix the problem to become--by far--the best OTW 60s rower in the history of the sport.

Last year, Jack Meyer and Bob Spousta, who (without the adjustments for age) finished second to Jim Dietz in the Veterans (60s) race at the Head of the Charles, pulled 2:10 pace.

ranger

[ranger]

Who have you competed against recently?

A 2K on the erg is a race against the clock.

Competition is irrelevant.

In a 2K on the erg, you just hold the pace that your training has enabled--nothing less, nothing more.

What someone has done recently in competition on the erg is irrelevant to performance.

What is relevant to performance is their training and what it can enable.

This last winter on the erg, I pulled right around WR pace for my age and weight.

No one my age and weight came within 20 seconds of my 2K, even though I didn't prepare for it, but just trained through my races, working on distance rowing, not even sharpening, indeed, not even getting to distance trials.

When I am fully prepared to race at BIRC 2010, I will be a couple of dozen seconds better over 2K.

My goal at the moment is to finish my distance rowing by the end of August and pull 6:28 for 2K before I start sharpening for the three months leading up to BIRC 2010 at the end of November.

I usually get a dozen seconds over 2K from three months of hard sharpening.

I'd be happy to race against you at BIRC, if you come.

ranger

[ranger]

Be honest, you know absolutely nothing about elite rowing or the people in it.

True.

At my age, who you know in elite rowing has nothing at all to do with what you can achieve, although everyone in and around the sport, such as you, (desperately) wants to believe otherwise.

In fact, just the opposite.

The conventional wisdom in the sport, as those who are central to the sport learn, teach, and practice it, just accentuates steep decline with age, and then, with this assumption of steep decline with age, sets wildly minimalistic standards for achievement by older rowers.

This whole socially and historically conditioned fantasy will soon end.

The emperor has no clothes.

ranger

[ausrwr]

You're not the emperor, but you sure as hell have no clothes.

My illustration serves to show that you have no basis for your statements. They're not even conjecture. They're just a statement of what you think is fact.

Just because you say it doesn't make it so. World Records from you again? Knowledge of anyone and anything about rowing?

Absolutely nothing of use from you as usual.