New Personal Best! Brag About That New Pb!

[HornetMaX]

Great stuff Glenn - and congrats on the PBs and records. Intrigued to see that slides are so much faster for the ultra sprints. I'd understood that they were for helpful for distance

I've once stumbled on this:

I use both in my training, and don't have strong feelings either way about this. Slides provide an advantage for sprints, and are also easier on my back if I up the drag (which I would not do on anything longer). I don't personally perceive a difference in pace over about 1k or so. I've heard others say there is a point at which they are slower but I haven't noticed it.

[Elizabeth]

Great stuff Glenn - and congrats on the PBs and records. Intrigued to see that slides are so much faster for the ultra sprints. I'd understood that they were for helpful for distance

I've once stumbled on this:

I use both in my training, and don't have strong feelings either way about this. Slides provide an advantage for sprints, and are also easier on my back if I up the drag (which I would not do on anything longer). I don't personally perceive a difference in pace over about 1k or so. I've heard others say there is a point at which they are slower but I haven't noticed it.

I'm actually going to partially walk that back! The distance part of that comment was largely based on easy and medium work, where my splits will vary by +/- 1-2 between sessions anyway.

I did this 6k on slides - https://log.concept2.com/profile/1558013/log/74097464 - and then a number of months later, tried to pace a static 5k off of it. Objectively my 5k was fine - https://log.concept2.com/profile/1558013/log/79209825 - but it felt like a grind way earlier than it should have, and I left the boathouse feeling pretty down about how it went. I felt like I generally had better fitness and wasn't sure why it wasn't translating.

I talked with Cam Buchan after, and he said he would have expected slides to be about a split faster, even with this kind of distance. Maybe there's a spot where they don't help quite as much. But I don't think that slides are slower.

And they are absolutely faster for sprints; my low pull is a few splits faster on slides.

[p_b82]

I forgot to finish my coffee and it had been sat brewing in the pot for about 8 hours.... apparently great as a motivating factor as I decided to take on a pb - not so great for dry mouth after about 20mins though.

Just smashed out 30 mins - even if the split table doesn't show the whole story of the big wobble in the penultimate split. (unable to swallow due to dry mouth then meant I missed a number of breaths and gave myself stitch).

I had aimed for 7k (165w/2:08.5) but set myself an optimistic 170W split target to try to hold - so chuffed with this one today, as it's just bumped me into 41st percentile for my age; only 0.2s/500m slower than my r20 6k pb

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	Hr
30:00.0	7,077m	2:07.1	170	885	25	173
5:00.0	1,182m	2:06.9	171	889	26	160
10:00.0	1,178m	2:07.3	170	883	27	169
15:00.0	1,177m	2:07.4	169	881	26	175
20:00.0	1,179m	2:07.2	170	884	25	177
25:00.0	1,168m	2:08.4	165	868	24	177
30:00.0	1,194m	2:05.6	177	907	24	183

previous pb was the r20 I did in July - 6,763m; and in Jan my previous open rate 30min pb was 6,556m (22nd percentile); so while perhaps unconventional, my r20 challenge has worked for me.

[Kerry1960]

Well done p_b82. All that r20 erging has undoubtedly helped you build a stronger stroke.

[GlennUk]

I'm actually going to partially walk that back! The distance part of that comment was largely based on easy and medium work, where my splits will vary by +/- 1-2 between sessions anyway.

I did this 6k on slides - https://log.concept2.com/profile/1558013/log/74097464 - and then a number of months later, tried to pace a static 5k off of it. Objectively my 5k was fine - https://log.concept2.com/profile/1558013/log/79209825 - but it felt like a grind way earlier than it should have, and I left the boathouse feeling pretty down about how it went. I felt like I generally had better fitness and wasn't sure why it wasn't translating.

I talked with Cam Buchan after, and he said he would have expected slides to be about a split faster, even with this kind of distance. Maybe there's a spot where they don't help quite as much. But I don't think that slides are slower.

And they are absolutely faster for sprints; my low pull is a few splits faster on slides.

Its an interesting debate, I haven't seen anything definitive but i agree re the feeling, i can pull low 1:30s/high 1:20 splits on slides relatively easily at low DF.

either way it one compares with others on slides then it makes no difference, if one tries to compete against a dynamic or stac and compare then its not a fair comparison

[contdrift86]

New HM PR, but only the 2nd time I've ever done one so was either going to be a PR or not. Reckon I could push it a bit quicker if I were to rate it a bit quicker, but the idea was to just get some decent metres into the legs.

I agree rate was a bit low, going higher should help.
But mostly: you max HR was 151 I think you can go way way faster.

It was just about getting it done this time, wanted to tick off the sub 90 minutes as a minimum but had a stretch goal of taking 10 minutes off my last one. Was worried about going took quickly at the beginning and blowing up and missing out on the target, but next time I go for one I might try it up at 24SPM and see what can happen.

[HornetMaX]

It was just about getting it done this time, wanted to tick off the sub 90 minutes as a minimum but had a stretch goal of taking 10 minutes off my last one. Was worried about going took quickly at the beginning and blowing up and missing out on the target, but next time I go for one I might try it up at 24SPM and see what can happen.

I'm not sure what the general wisdom is here but my (limited) experience makes me think that you can easily finish the HM keeping your HR at around 160.That coupled with a slightly higher SR and you'll improve your PB quite a lot.

[contdrift86]

It was just about getting it done this time, wanted to tick off the sub 90 minutes as a minimum but had a stretch goal of taking 10 minutes off my last one. Was worried about going took quickly at the beginning and blowing up and missing out on the target, but next time I go for one I might try it up at 24SPM and see what can happen.

I'm not sure what the general wisdom is here but my (limited) experience makes me think that you can easily finish the HM keeping your HR at around 160.That coupled with a slightly higher SR and you'll improve your PB quite a lot.

Surely the range of HR is dependant on the person. From when I used to run a lot I know that the HM race in running is usually around 85-90% of HR Max, if I were to translate that to the rower I could expect to sit between 165-177 based off my HR max of 198 that I've seen before.

But this is a giant rabbit hole we could go down and I don't want to derail the thread too much. I prefer to do a lot of my training based of watts and I figured that going at 61% of my 2km watts was a decent shout, but might be fun to try and see how I react at upping the watts by 5-10 each attempt.

[HornetMaX]

Surely the range of HR is dependant on the person. From when I used to run a lot I know that the HM race in running is usually around 85-90% of HR Max, if I were to translate that to the rower I could expect to sit between 165-177 based off my HR max of 198 that I've seen before.

That's why I said you should be capable of finishing it at 160HR piece of cake. Didn't know your max HR, but looking at your other PBs ...

[robhely]

New HM PR, but only the 2nd time I've ever done one so was either going to be a PR or not. Reckon I could push it a bit quicker if I were to rate it a bit quicker, but the idea was to just get some decent metres into the legs.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
1:26:57.5	21,097m	2:03.6	185	937	21	145
17:44.0	4,300m	2:03.7	185	936	21	137
17:43.7	8,600m	2:03.6	185	936	21	143
17:43.4	12,900m	2:03.6	185	937	21	147
17:43.6	17,200m	2:03.6	185	936	21	150
16:02.8	21,097m	2:03.5	186	939	21	151

Great result, having just done my first HM I know how much focus it takes to hold a steady pace over that distance. You could definitely go faster if you rated up, your HR was relatively low.

[robhely]

Word of caution on the percentiles though: they tend to move around during the season.
Also, it depends if you evaluate with/without age: here below are my percentiles for Gender(M)/Weight(LW)/Verified, with and without Age selected:

Code: Select all

	|	1'	0.5K	1K	2K	5K	10K	HM
--------------------------------------------------------------------
No age	|	83%	80%	82%	78%	78%	83%	83%
Age	|	76%	70%	68%	75%	75%	73%	76%

I prefer to look at the ones without age restriction, because there are more entries, they don't suffer from a jump when your age goes into a new category and, most importantly, they give me higher numbers
But as you can see, you can reach different conclusions depending on what you look at: "no age" says my 1K is good and my 2K & 5K suck (with respect to the rest), but "with age" says kind of the opposite ...

I tend to think the RowingLevel numbers make more sense.

I've only ever viewed the percentiles within my age bracket, looking at them without an age filter is infinitely more flattering! I wouldn't say your 2k and 5k suck, perhaps you're like me and they're just uncomfortably close to 'average'

I'm never sure if RowingLevel takes into consideration weight class or not.

[Sakly]

Surely the range of HR is dependant on the person. From when I used to run a lot I know that the HM race in running is usually around 85-90% of HR Max, if I were to translate that to the rower I could expect to sit between 165-177 based off my HR max of 198 that I've seen before.

I did my HM PB at 170 average, finishing it with 174. My max HR is 185, so average was 92%, end 94%.
Everybody is different, but I bet you can go way faster than you did, also looking at your other PBs

[Dangerscouse]

I forgot to finish my coffee and it had been sat brewing in the pot for about 8 hours.... apparently great as a motivating factor as I decided to take on a pb - not so great for dry mouth after about 20mins though.

Just smashed out 30 mins - even if the split table doesn't show the whole story of the big wobble in the penultimate split. (unable to swallow due to dry mouth then meant I missed a number of breaths and gave myself stitch).

I had aimed for 7k (165w/2:08.5) but set myself an optimistic 170W split target to try to hold - so chuffed with this one today, as it's just bumped me into 41st percentile for my age; only 0.2s/500m slower than my r20 6k pb

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	Hr
30:00.0	7,077m	2:07.1	170	885	25	173
5:00.0	1,182m	2:06.9	171	889	26	160
10:00.0	1,178m	2:07.3	170	883	27	169
15:00.0	1,177m	2:07.4	169	881	26	175
20:00.0	1,179m	2:07.2	170	884	25	177
25:00.0	1,168m	2:08.4	165	868	24	177
30:00.0	1,194m	2:05.6	177	907	24	183

previous pb was the r20 I did in July - 6,763m; and in Jan my previous open rate 30min pb was 6,556m (22nd percentile); so while perhaps unconventional, my r20 challenge has worked for me.

Well done Peter. I always enjoy seeing people chase the question mark rather than the exclamation point and seeing what happens. There are so many variables that may or may not work.

[Dangerscouse]

But this is a giant rabbit hole we could go down and I don't want to derail the thread too much.

This is definitely a rabbit hole. My max HR was seen at the end of my FM PB, but I've failed other sessions at circa 90% of max HR. I've even failed ultra distances when my HR was at low 80s, as CNS stress can play a big role in when you have to HD, rather than cardiac stress being the dominant issue.

If all things are equal, it can probably be a sign that you can give more, but I always apply a reasonable amount of cynicism to it as there are so many variables at play. For example, you might be oxygen delivery limited or oxygen utilisation limited, which will give different HR profiles. Evan Peikon on Instagram is well worth reading if you're interested in this.

Due to my HR profile, I apply more relevance to RPE, but that's just me.

[p_b82]

Well done p_b82. All that r20 erging has undoubtedly helped you build a stronger stroke.

Well done Peter. I always enjoy seeing people chase the question mark rather than the exclamation point and seeing what happens. There are so many variables that may or may not work.

Thanks both - what we'll never know is whether if I'd followed a more conventional approach would the gains have been larger? (or would I have got fed up and not rowed as much and thus made less progress)

Biggest thing was to learn that I could row with a decent enough Wmin value from a strength/leverage perspective - I've just had to be patient to let the cardio side catch up.