New Personal Best! Brag About That New Pb!

[hjs]

Apparently running a lot isn't hurting my rowing times. I knocked another 30 seconds off my 10k PB tonight. I wanted in the 36s but couldn't quite get there. Finished with a 37:06.5

I think the thrill of seeing my name at the top of the US rankings, even for a few days until the real athletes start posting times, is driving me to push myself. I felt like I was seriously going to lose dinner when I was done.

Your body seems to have adjusted nicely to the rowing motion, nice And looking at the way you improve you can expect more this season.

[rlk]

I've been pulling some nice PR's lately.

I've been doing intervals (1:00/2:00) once a week. Normally my first one is the slow one (around 312m, typically), then I do 8 solid ones in the 315-320 range, and give it everything I have for the last one. Today I did 341 for that final one, with my HR at 180 (not bad for 47 years old). The first 9, I was mostly in the 160's recovering into the 130's or low 140's at maybe a 2:30 pace. On very hard workouts, I've been getting my HR into the 170's, but it falls into the 120's within a few minutes. I was pulling 1:26's for the first 30 seconds or so (that's my personal low pull), but I couldn't hold on. I'm not all that strong per the weights, but I have good CV.

A couple of weeks ago, we did a 1500m at the gym (I wanted to get a rankable time, but they wouldn't do 2K -- afraid that some people might go overboard). I pulled 5:12 for the qualifier (I could have qualified with well over 6:00, but that would have felt really foolish), but I wanted to break 5:00 for the final. My strategy was to pull 1:41, 1:40, and as fast as I could. My splits were 1:40.7, 1:40.7, 1:36.9, for a total of 4:57.5 (the person at the gym kept yelling at me to crank it up during the first 1K, but that wasn't my plan!). Second place was 5:18 and third place was 6:22, so I wasn't really in a lot of danger. I don't normally do short ones like that, so I was pleased, but given that my HR was only 176 and I recovered quickly, I figure I could have squeezed a few more seconds out of it. I have to go back and try 2K.

My real strength is at 30 minutes. A week before that race, I pulled 8427 (1:46.8 pace). I was on top of the board for a couple of days (the advantage of doing that in early May) and I'm still #2 for my bracket for the year. Maybe I can get to 8500 this year, but it's going to be tough, looking at my splits. My 5 minutes splits (last 5 minutes) are still usually not better than 1422 or so (on good days, I could do that even when I only occasionally broke 8200), and on off days I might do an 8300 without even a 1400 split. But I'm starting faster and holding on in the high 1:40's. I've been improving about 100m/year for the past few years, and the folks at the gym gave me a good training plan (with the intervals) that's boosted my distance a lot.

I also have to do an hour and a 1/2M. My 1 hour is only 16236, but I should be able to break 16400 and maybe 16500 without much difficulty. My 1/2M is only 1:21:18, but I wasn't going for speed -- I had planned a fairly light workout, 1 hour at maybe 1:57, but at the end I decided to keep going. My butt was really sore, and in the last 5 minutes or so I cranked it up to 1:48 just to get off the fool thing a bit sooner.

[hjs]

I've been pulling some nice PR's lately.

I've been doing intervals (1:00/2:00) once a week. Normally my first one is the slow one (around 312m, typically), then I do 8 solid ones in the 315-320 range, and give it everything I have for the last one. Today I did 341 for that final one, with my HR at 180 (not bad for 47 years old). The first 9, I was mostly in the 160's recovering into the 130's or low 140's at maybe a 2:30 pace. On very hard workouts, I've been getting my HR into the 170's, but it falls into the 120's within a few minutes. I was pulling 1:26's for the first 30 seconds or so (that's my personal low pull), but I couldn't hold on. I'm not all that strong per the weights, but I have good CV.

A couple of weeks ago, we did a 1500m at the gym (I wanted to get a rankable time, but they wouldn't do 2K -- afraid that some people might go overboard). I pulled 5:12 for the qualifier (I could have qualified with well over 6:00, but that would have felt really foolish), but I wanted to break 5:00 for the final. My strategy was to pull 1:41, 1:40, and as fast as I could. My splits were 1:40.7, 1:40.7, 1:36.9, for a total of 4:57.5 (the person at the gym kept yelling at me to crank it up during the first 1K, but that wasn't my plan!). Second place was 5:18 and third place was 6:22, so I wasn't really in a lot of danger. I don't normally do short ones like that, so I was pleased, but given that my HR was only 176 and I recovered quickly, I figure I could have squeezed a few more seconds out of it. I have to go back and try 2K.

My real strength is at 30 minutes. A week before that race, I pulled 8427 (1:46.8 pace). I was on top of the board for a couple of days (the advantage of doing that in early May) and I'm still #2 for my bracket for the year. Maybe I can get to 8500 this year, but it's going to be tough, looking at my splits. My 5 minutes splits (last 5 minutes) are still usually not better than 1422 or so (on good days, I could do that even when I only occasionally broke 8200), and on off days I might do an 8300 without even a 1400 split. But I'm starting faster and holding on in the high 1:40's. I've been improving about 100m/year for the past few years, and the folks at the gym gave me a good training plan (with the intervals) that's boosted my distance a lot.

I also have to do an hour and a 1/2M. My 1 hour is only 16236, but I should be able to break 16400 and maybe 16500 without much difficulty. My 1/2M is only 1:21:18, but I wasn't going for speed -- I had planned a fairly light workout, 1 hour at maybe 1:57, but at the end I decided to keep going. My butt was really sore, and in the last 5 minutes or so I cranked it up to 1:48 just to get off the fool thing a bit sooner.

Nice write up, one thing though, for a 100 kg man your low pull is very soft, how come? what technique are you using? There must be going wrong somewhere, I have never heard of a fit big man like you who could only pull 1.26. Compared to that 1500 and the pace you did there is something going wrong.

[rlk]

Nice write up, one thing though, for a 100 kg man your low pull is very soft, how come? what technique are you using? There must be going wrong somewhere, I have never heard of a fit big man like you who could only pull 1.26. Compared to that 1500 and the pace you did there is something going wrong.

Yup, and you'll notice that my 1 minute pace (at the end of an interval workout, no less) was only about 2 seconds slower than my low pull, and I actually sustained that "low pull" for probably about 20 seconds before I couldn't hold on and gradually dropped back to 1:30. I see other folks report low pulls in the 1:15 range with 1 hour at maybe 1:54; that would suggest that my LP should be in the 1:11 range.

Technique-wise, I'm running the damper in the 3-4 range, which is probably less than optimal for a big low pull (I used to use 4-5, but I found setting it lower helped all around -- I see lots of people at the gym setting it at 6 or even 10 because they think they'll do better, where I have it at 3-4 and blow anybody else's times out of the water on my targeted slow days). My SPM is much higher than normally recommended; for a long slow piece (e. g. 1 hour at 1:57) it's about 27, for a hard 30 minutes it's about 28-29, for the 1500 it was about 33, and for intervals it's higher (I think in the upper 30's, I'll have to check the machine today). But I just can't generate much force at low stroke rates.

I seem to have good endurance, but not a lot of strength: I can't come close to doing even 1 pullup, for example (I need about 140 lb -- almost 2/3 of my body weight -- compensation to do a set). Everything else in the weight room, same story; bench press, maybe 140 (when my shoulder is good), lat pulldown 170, maybe 180. In the days I rode my bike outdoors, I was reasonably fast on the flat (18-22 MPH), but terrible on the hills, using a 30/27 on some hills that really weren't anything that much.

I've just figured I have a lot of cardiovascular capacity and endurance, but not a lot of muscular strength...

[hjs]

Nice write up, one thing though, for a 100 kg man your low pull is very soft, how come? what technique are you using? There must be going wrong somewhere, I have never heard of a fit big man like you who could only pull 1.26. Compared to that 1500 and the pace you did there is something going wrong.

Yup, and you'll notice that my 1 minute pace (at the end of an interval workout, no less) was only about 2 seconds slower than my low pull, and I actually sustained that "low pull" for probably about 20 seconds before I couldn't hold on and gradually dropped back to 1:30. I see other folks report low pulls in the 1:15 range with 1 hour at maybe 1:54; that would suggest that my LP should be in the 1:11 range.

Technique-wise, I'm running the damper in the 3-4 range, which is probably less than optimal for a big low pull (I used to use 4-5, but I found setting it lower helped all around -- I see lots of people at the gym setting it at 6 or even 10 because they think they'll do better, where I have it at 3-4 and blow anybody else's times out of the water on my targeted slow days). My SPM is much higher than normally recommended; for a long slow piece (e. g. 1 hour at 1:57) it's about 27, for a hard 30 minutes it's about 28-29, for the 1500 it was about 33, and for intervals it's higher (I think in the upper 30's, I'll have to check the machine today). But I just can't generate much force at low stroke rates.

I seem to have good endurance, but not a lot of strength: I can't come close to doing even 1 pullup, for example (I need about 140 lb -- almost 2/3 of my body weight -- compensation to do a set). Everything else in the weight room, same story; bench press, maybe 140 (when my shoulder is good), lat pulldown 170, maybe 180. In the days I rode my bike outdoors, I was reasonably fast on the flat (18-22 MPH), but terrible on the hills, using a 30/27 on some hills that really weren't anything that much.

I've just figured I have a lot of cardiovascular capacity and endurance, but not a lot of muscular strength...

Damper setting between 1 and 10 does not a good picture, search for dragfactor on the forum for this.

Your rating in itself for hard pieces is not to high, but you should be able to pull ok paces on lower rates, you could do some work on that, it will improve your power. search for l4 work on the forum.

About your low pull, 1.11 is very strong, that seems out of reach for you, to get a faster pace the rating should be above 50 if you would go for a low pull. In itself there is no need for that though, but that said 1.20 should be possible using a good techique and high rating

[rlk]

Damper setting between 1 and 10 does not a good picture, search for dragfactor on the forum for this.

Your rating in itself for hard pieces is not to high, but you should be able to pull ok paces on lower rates, you could do some work on that, it will improve your power. search for l4 work on the forum.

About your low pull, 1.11 is very strong, that seems out of reach for you, to get a faster pace the rating should be above 50 if you would go for a low pull. In itself there is no need for that though, but that said 1.20 should be possible using a good techique and high rating

High stroke rate makes sense. If I was pulling 40 spm to get 1:26 (550 watts), 50 spm at the same force would yield 725, or about 1:18.5. That's assuming I could get the same force per stroke at that rate (i. e. not being technique limited). So 1:20~1:22 sounds reasonable, since there will surely be some loss of force. I'll have to try that next opportunity.

I've read the recommendation for 24 spm (and lower!). I can do maybe 2:00~2:05 at that rating, but beyond that, I feel like I'm fighting my body and using up my muscle strength in a hurry. At 28 or thereabouts (call it 27-29), I feel like I'm in a good rhythm, and I can go for a long time at a good clip (maybe quite literally at a resonant frequency?). Even at 26 (for a long 1:57 or so), things feel out of sync and I find myself speeding up to 27 unconsciously. And what's more, as I speed up the rate, either my speed improves with my heart rate constant or my heart rate drops off a bit.

[hjs]

A lower spm at a given pace is indeed harder and gives a higher heartrate. The point people and otw rowers for sure is trying to do all strokes at a minimal pressure. Lowering the rate does give more time between strokes and makes it possible to do so for longer rows. For erging there is no direct need to do, but if you think your strokes could use some extra power, picking up some lower rate work will help.

[rlk]

HM 1:18:24.1. Previous 1:21:18, but I wasn't going for speed that time.

Normally on Wednesday I row for about an hour at 1:57 or thereabouts. Due to a 4:00 PM meeting, I have to go down mid-afternoon, when I'm not at my best. Then Thursday I go hard, 30 or 40 minutes.

However. Tomorrow's our anniversary, and we're going out to dinner, and I don't want to be worked over. Plus, my meeting was cancelled, so why not do a long hard one today and do little more than get warmed up tomorrow. So might as well do it in style and go for the HM.

My 30 minute best is about 1:47, so I figure add 4-5 seconds to that, and I'm in the 1:51~1:52 range. I wanted to break 1:52.5, which is my 8000/30 min benchmark, so figure 1:18~1:19 as my target. After the first 5 min at 1:54 or thereabouts, I settled into a good 1:52 pace to grind out the meters. Interestingly, my butt didn't feel too sore; I think I was tired enough not to notice. Getting down to the final 5K, though, I picked it up, first to about 1:50 and then for the final 3K I managed to squeeze out another second or so to get me comfortably in the lower half of my target range, with an average pace of 1:51.49 -- right smack at my target. My trailing 1 hour was roughly 16172 (that's my second best 1 hour) due to cranking it up at the end.

My pulse was up in the high 160's after the first half hour so, a bit higher than I expected, but then it stayed there until the final 5K, when it went up maybe a couple more points to max at 171. Fell back smartly under 150 within a couple of minutes, then down to 120 in another few minutes while I was writing my data down. I did another 5 minutes cooldown, stretched, and called it a day. A very satisfying day, I might add.

[jlawson58]

Knocked 1.5" off my 2k PB. My goal is another 5 seconds so I will not feel ashamed if I compete at CRASH-Bs next year.

[Carl Watts]

New 10K PB by exactly 20 seconds.

10Km at 1:52.7 R21 HR 176 ave for a 37:35.5

Should have started faster as I had no real intention of doing a PB but picked it up and ended in a 1:40 sprint finish to max out the HR. Obviously I need to lift the rating a little as well but overall pretty happy with the result.

[gregsmith01748]

Congratulations to Jeff, Carl and elk !
Jeff: I don't know how you have the courage to keep setting 2k PBs. I just hate the distance and do time trials as seldom as I can.
Carl: very impressive setting a PB almost by accident. To use words from a dubious source, your fitness must be "maximal". seriously, you must have made a big step up in your aerobic endurance to lay down a PB at r21.

Rlk: sounds like a well planned and executed HM. When I've managed to set my longer distance PBs, I've seen a fair amount of HR drift, so it would be around 150 at 30' and up to 160 by 60', with very steady pacing. Do you seen the same thing, or something more stable?

[rlk]

Greg: usually I see a gradual rise over time, without a lot of fluctuation. Yesterday when I did 8344 in 30 minutes, I was up around 160 by 10 minutes or so, which gradually rose to 170 around 28 minutes (with 5 minute splits between 1389 and 1395, in the 1:47.5~1:48 range). In the last 100 seconds or so, I pushed the pace to about 1:44 and it went up to 174, which is a little higher than usual for that distance (I would have expected to see it around 170 or 171). With splits that would have been slightly declining except for the final kick, I'd have to call it a bit of an off day. But I might have started too fast. I did 1376 in the first 5 minute split, and the first minute I was averaging about 1:48.

The pattern I saw for the HM was more typical -- gradual increase with generally improving splits.

I'm not planning to repeat it any time soon; it takes a lot of time. Were I to repeat it, I'd be more aggressive starting around 10K and try to break 1:18:00.

[jlawson58]

Congratulations to Jeff, Carl and elk !
Jeff: I don't know how you have the courage to keep setting 2k PBs. I just hate the distance and do time trials as seldom as I can.

Thanks. I hate them as well but I do so little erging these days that I feel like I have to give it my all in the short amount of time that I have. My last 3 week total meters have been 27k, 21k, and 7k ! I have however been doing Tabatas which skew the totals a bit.

[tewbz]

2k p.r 7:11 did this after a month of recovery workouts on the bike

[jlawson58]

New 30 min PB by 66m 2 nights ago and a new 5k PB tonight by about 6". I don't know if I would be even better if I did more than 15k per week, or if the massive pushup and swimming routine is still gaining me fitness.