The Two Types of Training

[hjs]

I find the weight training studies problematic.

The duration of the studies is always relatively short, so I'm never sure what they tell me about extended training.

Second, it is difficult to know the conditioning and strength of the study participants, so it is difficult to apply the results to one's own case.

Finally, I find balancing weight training w/ rowing specific training to be tricky. Significant weight work--whether focused on strength or endurance--demands recovery, which affects overall training volume

I expect we can agree that the value of raw power is greater on the erg than on the water, where technique so determines one's ability to apply power.

Very true,

Maybe of interest.

If we look at current decathlon athletes compared to the ones in the 80 and 90 's, we see a different kind of athlete, less powerfull and lighter, but there are a bit better and even the trowing events are better, plus 70 with the javilin is not rare anymore and plus 50 with the discus is also done. So the focus here is more on speed and technique and less on raw muscle power.
A nice example is Guido kratschmer, he has a indoor shotput pb of 18 plus meters That does take some strenght

[ranger]

Even though I had a wretched race and wasn't even rowing for big chunks of time, yesterday, in Chicago, I broke the 55s lwt Chicago Indoor Rowing Championships record by 28 seconds.

So, it appears that I could win as much $250.

I found at least three other championship records that were broken, and undoubtedly, others were, too.

If more were broken, I win less, in proportion to how many records were broken.

$250 is the maximal prize.

The pool of money is $1000.

I won't be 60 until next year, but at Cleveland, I was 15 seconds under the 60s lwt American record.

At Chicago, despite my bad race, I was also just four seconds off of Hendershott's _heavyweight_ 60s championship record.

If I had just rowed a steady race, as I did at Cleveland, I would have been five seconds under Hendershott's 60s championship record of 6:46.

At Chicago, I was also 28 seconds under the 50s lwt championship record and just missed the 40s lwt championship record by a second.

The 30s lwt championship record is 6:38.

ranger

[snowleopard]

Even though I had a wretched race and wasn't even rowing for big chunks of time, yesterday, in Chicago, I broke the 55s lwt Chicago Indoor Rowing Championships record by 28 seconds.

So what? Spare us the flannel. You were going to whack the age group WR outa the park and then some

You were more than 20 seconds (60 watts) off your prediction of a PB and more than a whopping 34 seconds (100 watts) off a 6:16.

You are measured against your wild and totally inaccurate predictions. If you want to know what you are capable of, just ask some people here.

Henry told you you will never break 6:40 again and Nosmo's SB prediction is within two seconds of your actual.

[ranger]

The goal will still be 1:38 @ 32 spm for Detroit.

I certainly don't know for sure, but I think I'll nail it this time.

If not, I'll just keep doing this training at 32 spm (AT), 36 spm (TR), and 40 spm (AN), and it will come along soon.

At 11.7 SPI and these high ratings, I now stroke like an elite young lightweight.

I just need to bring up my anaerobic capacities and the game is won.

ranger

[ranger]

your prediction

There really _are_ no race predictions that mean anything until you are fully trained, and then they are superfluous, because your racing just reflects your training, and therefore is entirely predictable.

That's why Mike's missing his 2K target by a dozen seconds is so serious, while my missing my 2K target has no relevance to anything.

Mike was fully trained.

There is nothing else he can do to improve his 2K time on the erg but return to foundational rowing and work up better UT times, which he clearly has no interest in doing.

I can improve my 2K times by just completing my training in its natural order and progression.

My UT rowing is complete.

Now, I just need to add to my training the type of thing that Mike has already done for several months--AT, TR, and AN rowing.

As I do that, my anaerobic capacities will come steadily up, and as they do, my 2K time will come steadily down.

Your anaerobic capacities are 20% of your best 2K.

If your best 2K is 420 watts, that's 84 watts, or right around eight seconds per 500m.

Without much hard AT, TR, or AN rowing at all, my 2K time, right now, is already a couple of seconds per 500m beyond Mike's (and Roy's, if he ever rows again), fully trained.

So, things are looking _very_ good.

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

I know there are seminars for people who lack self-esteem and need to become more self-confident and assertive. I wonder if there are any seminars for people who need to tone it down.

[snowleopard]

Without much hard AT, TR, or AN rowing at all, my 2K time, right now, is already a couple of seconds per 500m beyond Mike's (and Roy's, if he ever rows again), fully trained.

And after 60 million meters and nearly two olympiads of training, Roy's WR -- achieved on about an hour a day in just one year -- is still beyond you.

By your definition, neither Mike nor Roy has ever been fully trained. You have already contradicted yourself by saying that Mike can improve his 2K time by changing his training. (That said, who are you to advise people on how to train.)

ranger, do yourself a favour: apologize to all the people you have insulted down the years; pay your debts (before your wife finds out); and STFU.

[TomR]

The goal will still be 1:38 @ 32 spm for Detroit.

You can't hold that split. Your breaks will start after about 1200 meters.

You are impossibly stupid.

[TomR]

Maybe of interest.

If we look at current decathlon athletes compared to the ones in the 80 and 90 's, we see a different kind of athlete, less powerfull and lighter, but there are a bit better. . . the focus here is more on speed and technique and less on raw muscle power.

That is noteworthy. thanks Henry.

[ranger]

The goal will still be 1:38 @ 32 spm for Detroit.

You can't hold that split. Your breaks will start after about 1200 meters.

You are impossibly stupid.

Who cares?

No consequences at all.

Then I just keep training.

When I am fully trained, what I can do for 2K will be entirely predictable from my training.

If I get to 8 x 500m, 1:31 @ 40 spm, or 4 x 1K, 1:34 @ 36 spm, or 4 x 2K, 1:38 @ 32 spm, I'll pull 1:34/6:16 for 2K.

For a lightweight, 36 spm is a _very_ reasonable racing rate.

11.7 SPI is perfect as a stroking power, not too high, not too low.

Training is coming along _very_ well.

ranger

[leadville]

your prediction

There really _are_ no race predictions that mean anything until you are fully trained, and then they are superfluous, because your racing just reflects your training, and therefore is entirely predictable.

MUDO

So, things are looking _very_ good.

ranger

I'm wondering what our hero's prescription is, and if it has been checked recently. ranger, how exactly can things be looking 'very good' when you missed your target by a mile, and this after 'sharpening' for almost two months.

Are you as dense and denial-prone as you appear, or just deluded? You were promising to beat the WR yesterday and now you're chortling about beating the CHICAGO record? Chicago, the destination for all national team aspirants, that hotbed of rowing prowess, Philly-on-the-Lake, Henley of the midwest, home of the US National Training Center?

THAT CHICAGO?

Mike races and wins at the biggest event in the indoor erging world, and you, coward that you are, don't even show up.

To remind you, the average of Mike's two races this year is way better than the average of your races.

And only wimps handle down. I can't wait to watch you handle down on the water. Not only are you not technically proficient enough to race OTW, you're also not tough enough.

[ranger]

your prediction

There really _are_ no race predictions that mean anything until you are fully trained, and then they are superfluous, because your racing just reflects your training, and therefore is entirely predictable.

MUDO

So, things are looking _very_ good.

ranger

I'm wondering what our hero's prescription is, and if it has been checked recently. ranger, how exactly can things be looking 'very good' when you missed your target by a mile, and this after 'sharpening' for almost two months.

Are you as dense and denial-prone as you appear, or just deluded? You were promising to beat the WR yesterday and now you're chortling about beating the CHICAGO record? Chicago, the destination for all national team aspirants, that hotbed of rowing prowess, Philly-on-the-Lake, Henley of the midwest, home of the US National Training Center?

THAT CHICAGO?

Mike races and wins at the biggest event in the indoor erging world, and you, coward that you are, don't even show up.

To remind you, the average of Mike's two races this year is way better than the average of your races.

And only wimps handle down. I can't wait to watch you handle down on the water. Not only are you not technically proficient enough to race OTW, you're also not tough enough.

You're a f..kin' idiot.

My training has been perfect.

This week I'm laughin' all the way to the bank.

Next week, I'll have the WR--again.

At some point, if I just keep this high rate training (32/AT-36/TR-40/AN), I'll pull 1:34 for 2K.

And my mission will be accomplished.

A lwt 6:16 at 60 years old will be the best row in the history of the sport.

I will break the 40s lwt WR when I am 60.

I will break the 60s _heavyweight_ WR by 8 seconds rowing as a lightweight.

On the erg, Mike VB has always been a couple seconds per 500m from a WR of any sort.

I will break Brian Bailey's 60s lwt WR by 26 seconds.

ranger

[hjs]

The goal will still be 1:38 @ 32 spm for Detroit.

You can't hold that split. Your breaks will start after about 1200 meters.

You are impossibly stupid.

Who cares?

No consequences at all.

Then I just keep training.

When I am fully trained, what I can do for 2K will be entirely predictable from my training.

Indeed no consequences at all, but you can train all you want you still wil be slowly getting worse, you are now simply at the peak of your still availeble potential. Still very respectable.

But the said thing remains that your very first race ever will always you
stay you lifetime Pb.

[snowleopard]

You're a f..kin' idiot.

-- snip --

This week I'm laughin' all the way to the bank.

$250 and not even all of that. George Soros had better watch out. How much did the gas and overnight stay cost you?

At some point, if I just keep this high rate training (32/AT-36/TR-40/AN), I'll pull 1:34 for 2K.

You will, but it will take you 60 minutes. Remember, some of the time you don't row

[leadville]

There really _are_ no race predictions that mean anything until you are fully trained, and then they are superfluous, because your racing just reflects your training, and therefore is entirely predictable.

MUDO

So, things are looking _very_ good.

ranger

I'm wondering what our hero's prescription is, and if it has been checked recently. ranger, how exactly can things be looking 'very good' when you missed your target by a mile, and this after 'sharpening' for almost two months.

Are you as dense and denial-prone as you appear, or just deluded? You were promising to beat the WR yesterday and now you're chortling about beating the CHICAGO record? Chicago, the destination for all national team aspirants, that hotbed of rowing prowess, Philly-on-the-Lake, Henley of the midwest, home of the US National Training Center?

THAT CHICAGO?

Mike races and wins at the biggest event in the indoor erging world, and you, coward that you are, don't even show up.

To remind you, the average of Mike's two races this year is way better than the average of your races.

And only wimps handle down. I can't wait to watch you handle down on the water. Not only are you not technically proficient enough to race OTW, you're also not tough enough.

You're a f..kin' idiot.

My training has been perfect.

This week I'm laughin' all the way to the bank.

Next week, I'll have the WR--again.

At some point, if I just keep this high rate training (32/AT-36/TR-40/AN), I'll pull 1:34 for 2K.

And my mission will be accomplished.

A lwt 6:16 at 60 years old will be the best row in the history of the sport.

I will break the 40s lwt WR when I am 60.

On the erg, Mike VB has always been a couple seconds per 500m from a WR of any sort.

I will break Brian Bailey's 60s lwt WR by 26 seconds.

ranger

Hmmmmm, I'm a 'fxxxn idiot'?

I'm not the one claiming his training is perfect then blowing up in two out of three races this year.

How, pray tell, is your training 'perfect' if you have yet to achieve any of the goals you set out last year and repeat endlessly, always qualifying them as above

ranger - if I just keep this high rate training (32/AT-36/TR-40/AN), I'll pull 1:34 for 2K.

Here's the real, 'IF'. rangerboy; If you weren't such a lying self-absorbed preening didact-a-saurus you might actually have a chance of achieving the more realistic of your goals, but your very arrogance ensures you won't.

And I'm the fxxxin idiot...