Ranger's training thread

[mikvan52]

RIch now considers himself ready to weigh-in on OTW discussions.

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 57#p137857

Too bad he can't string together a couple of sentences that make any sense at all.
Perhaps, with multiple edits, he can at least form a paragraph or two to let us know at the very least what he's thinking.

[mikvan52]

Anyone who can rate up can blow by them--no problem.

RIch: If the online videos referenced in the OTW thread about HOCR rate are still available, watch then again.

YOU CAN LINK THRU THE HTTP: LISTED IN MY PRIOR POST

Gleeson, Dietz... and crew row low rate at 5k OTW and win.
IF you wish to show better rowing for people of that age rowing and winning... find it and post it.

You clearly don't know WTF you are talking about.
I used to feel the same way you seem to now: "all i have 2 do is RRRRRate it up to win" It doesn't work that way..

Sustained effort for senior masters rowers is difficult to maintain when form is a consideration. One cannot merely rush up and down the slide as can be done sometimes on the erg....

The first time I won CRASH-bs I sprinted the last 500 at a 39.... I could never to that OTW because of what my form would do to boat speed.

Don't you ever as yourself: "Maybe I should at least try what I'm talking about before running on a the mouth endlessly?"

At the very least: Research your contentions and post supporting evidence.
Twerp!

[mikvan52]

Naturally, all his focus by our hero, RC, is to psyche himself up to HTFU and finally do something of note OTW.

Here's what he has to look at for competition

Code: Select all

1        University of Massachusetts - Amherst (James Dietz)				20:17.311				 			 	
2		Cambridge Boat Club (Henry Hamilton)			21:43.107		
3		Unaffiliated (Jack Meyer)			20:40.216		
4		Nelson Rowing Club (Landon Carter)				21:28.622		
5		Occoquan Boat Club (Bob Spousta)			20:40.813		
		

LENGTH OF HOCR COURSE = 4800 METERS



What is ranger's assertion on how he'll simply "rate it up" and win... What will be his time?
My prediction (2.4 min/500m pace x 9.6 500s) = 23:00 (+/-)

...not very distinctive for someone w/a self-touted "perfect stroke"...

Go get some good coaching before it's too late.

Rich... while you may consider yourself the Elskid of Ann Arbor...
If memory serves....50 year old women row faster than 23:00 at the HOCR.

BTW: I rowed with Henry Hamilton and Jack Meyer last weekend...

http://row2k.com/results/resultspage.cf ... 3196&cat=6

somehow they're able to make it to events and continue to produce great performances. I think Henry has 9 years on you... Guess what: he doesn't erg race...tsk. tsk

[mikvan52]

50 year old women row faster than 23:00 at the HOCR.

visit the hocr.org website...
random year: 2007

Code: Select all

1		Motley Rowing Club (Judy Geer)				 		 		21:30.930		
2		South End Rowing Club (Diane Davis)				 		 		21:32.140		
3		Cambridge Boat Club (Marie Hagelstein)				 		 		21:50.870		
4		GMS Rowing Center (Paula Meyer)				 		 		22:05.650		
5		GMS Rowing Center (Karen Simmons)				 		 		22:21.360		
6		Cambridge Boat Club (Alison Sanders-fleming)				 		 		22:24.430		
7		Cambridge Boat Club (Sara Hall)				 		 		22:55.240		
8		Unaffiliated (Chris Johnson)				 		 		22:57.450		

[whp4]

In his own mind Ranger is the greatest erger and otw rower of all time.

In the real world Ranger is a liar, a cheat and a troll.

Yea, that's why I had three WR rows on the erg when I didn't even know how to row.

Number of WR rows now that you know how to row and row well: 0

At WIRC 2010, the 60s lwt hammer pulled 7:04.

which is slightly faster than you pulled your last appearance at WIRC several years ago, in your mid 50s!

At WIRC 2011, I will be a no-show 60s lwt, and still won't have paid my debt to HJS.

You forgot a word or two, I added them for you.

[whp4]

If only ergs lied, huh, lancs?

But...

Ergs don't lie, so that game's up.

And that's exactly why there are no IND_V results posted by you -- the machine won't report what you want it to. Rather than reveal the truth, you prevaricate endlessly.

Where is Paul Flack these days?

Busy building a company instead of nursing off the public teat. http://www.bridgestreettoys.com/

[ranger]

Anyone who can rate up can blow by them--no problem.

RIch: If the online videos referenced in the OTW thread about HOCR rate are still available, watch then again.

YOU CAN LINK THRU THE HTTP: LISTED IN MY PRIOR POST

Gleeson, Dietz... and crew row low rate at 5k OTW and win.
IF you wish to show better rowing for people of that age rowing and winning... find it and post it.

You clearly don't know WTF you are talking about.
I used to feel the same way you seem to now: "all i have 2 do is RRRRRate it up to win" It doesn't work that way..

Sustained effort for senior masters rowers is difficult to maintain when form is a consideration. One cannot merely rush up and down the slide as can be done sometimes on the erg....

The first time I won CRASH-bs I sprinted the last 500 at a 39.... I could never to that OTW because of what my form would do to boat speed.

Don't you ever as yourself: "Maybe I should at least try what I'm talking about before running on a the mouth endlessly?"

At the very least: Research your contentions and post supporting evidence.
Twerp!

Sure, to be effective, when you rate up. you have to preserve your form (SPI).

This is taxing.

That is why physical capacity and training--by far--are the two most important elements of boat speed.

Technique is only a distance third.

The effort required to maintain a long/big stroke is not specific to rowing OTW.

Exactly the same effort is required to keep a high SPI (and rate up) on the erg.

Just get on the erg and do 20K of 1:46 @ 26 spm, as I am doing every day.

60s lightweights haven't avoided doing this on the erg because it is misguided in some way.

They have avoided doing this on the erg because they were unable.

I am not unable.

I have the physical profile of a late 30s rower, not a 60s rower.

For some reason, probably just my lifelong physical habits, I have not suffered as steep a decline with age over the 40 years from 20 to 60.

I am exactly the same weight as I was at an (athletic) 20.

I still have _all_ of my youthful full-body power, which was and is considerable.

And my maxHR is still 190 bpm, not the expected 160 bpm.

When I am fully prepared to race on the erg this fall and winter, I will rate 37 spm for 3K at 11.5 SPI--as a lightweight.

Historically, at that rate, 60s lwts have only been able to do 9 SPI.

The have not been able to maintain their technique.

At 37 spm, 2.5 SPI is worth 90 watts, or right around 8 seconds per 500m.

ranger

[ranger]

And that's exactly why there are no IND_V results posted by you

Nope.

I have verified results every year, just like everyone else.

Here they are for last year.

No one my age and weight came within 20 seconds of my 2K last year, even though I didn't prepare to race.

When I prepare to race this fall and winter, that gap will grow to 40, or even 50, seconds.

It's hard to argue with success.

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (59–70) | 2010 Season

1 Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.4 RACE
2 Hugh Pite 65 Sidney BC CAN 7:02.7 RACE
3 Robert Lakin 61 Wichita KS USA 7:03.6 RACE
4 gregory brock 62 santa cruz ca USA 7:03.9 IND
5 Rolf Meek 59 Oslo NOR 7:05.4 IND
6 Jerry Lawson 62 USA 7:06.0 RACE
6 Gerald Lawson 62 Winona MN USA 7:06.0 IND
8 Leif Petersen 64 DEN 7:08.5 RACE
9 Peter Francis 61 Denver CO USA 7:09.3 RACE
10 Roger Prowse 65 GBR 7:10.3 RAC

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

It's easy to keep track of my rowing vis-a-vis yours.

WE ROW THE SAME PACES AND RATES AT THE SAME HEART RATES.

So we pretty much row identically, that is, with the same effectiveness and efficiency.

Technique is not an issue at all.

The issue is physical capacity and training, the two most important elements of boat speed.

You have the physiology of a broken down old man.

I have the physiology of a 30-year-old in the prime of life.

Your maxHR is 163 bpm, _exactly_ the norm for a man your age (57) by the formula, maxHR = 220 - age.

My maxHR is 190, the norm for a 30-year-old in the prime of life.

Rowing 1:46 @ 26 spm, which we can both do perfectly well, our heart rates both run along at about 155 bpm.

But for you, that's 95% HRR--TR, pushing 2K race pace.

For me, that's 75% HRR--just middlin' UT1, FM pace.

The difference is 8 seconds per 500m.

Sure, this has an enormous effect on racing at all distances.

But the more significant effect, especially over long span of time (years, decades), is on training.

You can't do very much training at TR.

TR training wears you out.

And even when you are do TR training, you are only going 1:46, not very fast at all.

I can do hours and hours of FM training--every day.

Lots of FM pace (middlin' UT1) makes you feel great.

And when I do TR training, I will do 1:36 @ 34 spm, not 1:46 @ 26 spm.

I can rate up.

You can't.

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

Dang my boat is fast!

I’m so happy for you.

I just bought a fast pair of running shoes and therefore as soon as I am fully trained and sharpened, and as soon as I know how fast I can run various distances, I will run a sub-four minute mile.

[ranger]

Dang my boat is fast!

I’m so happy for you.

I just bought a fast pair of running shoes and therefore as soon as I am fully trained and sharpened, and as soon as I know how fast I can run various distances, I will run a sub-four minute mile.

Hey, nice.

Throw us a post about that when it happens.



That should cause quite a stir.

Yea, running shoes can make quite a difference in the speed of your racing.

To protect his legs during his massive interval workouts (60 x 400m, etc.), Zatopek trained in army boots.

But he didn't race in them.

I have been training in my Peinert26.

But I'll never race it.

I'll race in my Fluid.

Dang, that boat is fast!

ranger

[ranger]

Erging is done.

Time to get out OTW.

Sun's coming up soon.

Dawn is breakin'.

_Gorgeous_ weather forecast for Ann Arbor this week.

Seventy degrees F. and sunny--day after day.

I need to do 20K OTW--every day.

I'll see if I can get that done today--and for the rest of the week.

20K on the erg just before dawn. Breakfast. 20K on the water just after dawn.

That would be perfect as a daily routine for this summer and fall.

ranger

[becz]

The video was taken rowing at max drag, which makes you shorten up and use your upper body both more and somewhat out of sequence, in order to maximize effectiveness and efficiency.

Wrong again. It is clear in the video that the damper is only at about 6.

Rich - I noticed you didn't reply to this. The video in which you claim that the poor technique we see is due to rowing at max drag - indeed the reason you gave for all of your poor performances this past season - is clearly being rowed with the damper set at 6. So what's the story? Was this piece rowed at max drag?

Rich - I know it's about 4 pages back now so maybe you missed this? You said that you were rowing at max drag in this video, and that was the reason for your (admitted) poor technique. It's clear from the video that you were rowing with the damper set at 6. Were you rowing at max drag?

Rich - I see that you've been on the forum since I posted this. I guess you missed it. Can you let us know if you were rowing at max drag in this video. That's the reason you gave for the poor technique, and in general the reason you gave for your poor erg performances this year. I can go back and find the quotes if that will help. Were you rowing at max drag in this video?

[ranger]

Can you let us know if you were rowing at max drag in this video. That's the reason you gave for the poor technique, and in general the reason you gave for your poor erg performances this year

My performances weren't at all poor this last winter.

No one my age and weight came within 20 seconds of my 2K.

I pulled WR pace for my age and weight without even preparing for it.

If I had prepared for racing, I would have been a dozen seconds under WR pace.

Sure, given my technique now, I think it was a mistake to row at max drag in my races and that probably slowed me down even further.

How much, I don't know, but probably some.

Given my technique now, rowing at max drag also undermined my efficiency doing certain sorts of training.

So, I am now rowing at low drag (123 df.).

I have been rowing at low drag for a couple of months.

At low drag, I use the full slide and therefore quicker (and bigger) legs, with a more delayed engagement of my back and arms.

At the catch, the roller on my seat is only six inches from front stops.

This is much closer to an effective OTW stroke.

ranger

[ranger]

you...will never actually show up and race

Can't see where this is coming from.

Fact:

I show up and race more than anyone, even when I haven't prepared for it.

ranger