Ranger's training thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
lancs
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by lancs » March 15th, 2011, 9:57 am

It's very interesting to see an articulate poster like Paul H back the Prof into a corner. I think the wager about Ranger not posting ever again if he doesn't post a FM @1:48 by the end of April is a reasonable one. However, I'd consider extending the proposition to this:

If he doesn't produce any FM result by the end of April he should be banned until he does.

I mean, seriously, when is all this gonna end? He must spend several hours a day posting on here keeping up with the 10 or so active members on this thread which, in combination with the training he claims to do, doesn't leave much time for anything else I'm guessing. I feel sorry for his poor wife.. jeez.. imagine being married to the cretinous idiot?!?

Ideally, I'd leave this thread alone but I'm intrigued as to how it will all pan out. Presumably when Prof fails yet again for the 5th year running in his prediction of a 1:48 FM he'll move his moronic focus onto another equally impossible goal. Who knows?

Anyway, back to the powerwashing outside... gotta use my Paternity Leave to some good effect! :D

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » March 15th, 2011, 10:03 am

PaulH wrote: it's your predictions that are consistently and always wrong.
I only have one prediction, really, that the limit of my potential is 6:16.

So the focus of my training has been collecting what I need to realize that potential.

So far so good.

My training is coming along perfectly.

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.).

So my training is done.

I am now just preparing for specific distance races (AT).

Then I will prepare for racing a 2K (with anaerobic [TR, AN] sharpening).

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

mrfit
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mrfit » March 15th, 2011, 10:12 am

http://img3.imageshack.us/f/hrandwattsmarch15.png/

ranger, it's interesting to see that our intensity on the Kurt Kinetic has been the same lately. Here's my results of 30' at 75% HRR today. I later went into intervals so this was just a warm up.

215w (19mph) divided by 80kg (guess) is 2.7watts/kg, if you want to compare workouts.

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hjs
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by hjs » March 15th, 2011, 10:18 am

ranger wrote:
hjs wrote:No you did not, you went of to fast
No, I went out perfectly, very conservatively, 30 spm.

I didn't get my weight quite right.

ranger
? Your weight not quite right, how can that be it fine a few months before accourding to you.

So which is it? was if fine or was it not, either way you lied at least one of the 2 times.

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mikvan52
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mikvan52 » March 15th, 2011, 12:03 pm

mrfit wrote:
ranger, it's interesting to see that our intensity on the Kurt Kinetic has been the same lately.
Interesting? ... To whom? :P

Does anyone do any rowing, here? Or, are we just interested in gym equipment?
Blow-up dolls don't equate to marriage, after all... :idea: :wink:

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » March 15th, 2011, 12:50 pm

PaulH wrote:Show us a piece that contains more than one consecutive stroke of you rowing at 13 spi and at low drag. You state this as a fact, and yet we've never seen it. That wouldn't demonstrate that your prediction is right
By "piece," you mean "race"?

That's what I am going to do with a FM.

That's my first race, fully prepared, rowing well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.).

But you are avoiding my initial question.

What sort of evidence would you look for that would demonstrate that someone who is a WR-holder, and therefore whose fitness is maximal, has made certain sorts of promising technical progress?

That is, how would you measure promising advances in things like effectiveness and efficiency, rather than just fitness?

Just by faster racing?

That is, do you assume that, if you change your form radically, in many ways, over a relatively long period of time, that each little way you change it for the better will contribute a new increment of speed to your racing, right then, because every improvement in technique is independent of every other improvement in technique, even though there might be, I don't know, fifty pretty big things you can work on, one by one?

For instance, if you learned to use your legs and feet appropriately, as I did pretty early on, but still rowed at max drag, should the better use of my legs have shown up in faster 2K times?

Or would you assume that the only way to take advantage of an appropriately quick and powerful use of your legs at the catch depends on lowering the drag and dealing with all of the differences in timing, ratio, rhythm, etc., entailed by _that_ change, too?

ranger
Last edited by ranger on March 15th, 2011, 1:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

snowleopard
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by snowleopard » March 15th, 2011, 12:58 pm

ranger wrote:who is a WR-holder
I just looked at the list of WR holders. I didn't see your name. Why is that?

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mrfit » March 15th, 2011, 1:17 pm

mikvan52 wrote:
mrfit wrote:
ranger, it's interesting to see that our intensity on the Kurt Kinetic has been the same lately.
Interesting? ... To whom? :P

Does anyone do any rowing, here? Or, are we just interested in gym equipment?
Blow-up dolls don't equate to marriage, after all... :idea: :wink:

It's winter! Blow up doll season. The wife returns when the snow melts.


Interesting to me anyway. Ranger won't post rowing results but will share his cycling power in a continous fashion and share HR readings. You take what you get.

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » March 15th, 2011, 2:25 pm

hjs wrote:Your weight not quite right, how can that be it fine a few months before accourding to you.
Sure, I made weight.

But I am not very comfortable at 10% body fat, and clearly had difficulty with it this time, as many do, who are heavy lightweights.

I have gotten in a couple good races as a lighweight over the last couple of years, but others have gone badly, as this one did.

So it goes.

I tried.

The biggest issue for my rowing as a lightweight is probably this: It will be much easier for me to do if I am fully prepared.

It is one thing to row a 2K, unprepared, if you are fully fed and watered.

You can just grit your teeth and do it, drawing on reserves you can muster from your experience and training.

It is another thing to row a 2K, unprepared, if you are also starved and dehydrated.

You can't draw on anything if your are depleted.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on March 15th, 2011, 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » March 15th, 2011, 2:32 pm

mrfit wrote:Ranger won't post rowing results but will share his cycling power in a continous fashion and share HR readings. You take what you get
Mike doesn't cross-train.

He thinks it's a waste of time, like erging.

Oh well.

You only get out of something what you put into it, I guess.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by PaulH » March 15th, 2011, 2:35 pm

ranger wrote:
PaulH wrote:Show us a piece that contains more than one consecutive stroke of you rowing at 13 spi and at low drag. You state this as a fact, and yet we've never seen it. That wouldn't demonstrate that your prediction is right
By "piece," you mean "race"?
No, by "piece" I mean, and stick with me here because this is going to get a bit technical, "piece".

You decide what. Really, anything you like, even a mere two consecutive strokes. I'd prefer something fairly brisk, but I'll take anything. All I ask is that it demonstrate more than 1 stroke taken at 13 spi. As far as I know we haven't seen such a thing from you, at least not in recent years, so it would be way more evidence than we have today.

And to anticipate your objection, may I recommend you phone your brother and ask for his opinion on whether, say, 30 seconds of rowing not specifically geared towards your training goals will be 'ruinous' to your overall progress. Clearly my assurance that it will not make a whit of difference counts for nothing, but I've a strong feeling he'll back me on this.
ranger wrote: But you are avoiding my initial question.

What sort of evidence would you look for that would demonstrate that someone who is a WR-holder, and therefore whose fitness is maximal, has made certain sorts of promising technical progress?
I'm really not avoiding anything. You asked what would demonstrate it, and I said a good starting point would be to see more than one consecutive stroke at your target spi. Clearly the more such technically progressed strokes you could demonstrate in a row the better, and every additional one would add to the quality of the demonstration. But really, two would be a start. Ultimately the best demonstration is, of course, to see improved results, but we appear to be perpetually some way from that.

Oh, and you've committed an error of logic. Your status as a world record holder does not and did not mean that your fitness is or was maximal. It just meant that it was competitively high.

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » March 15th, 2011, 2:38 pm

PaulH wrote:How did you get 2.2 seconds slower over 4 years? I'd say it's a combination of age-related decline mixed with an earlier time that still had some room for improvement. That seems enough to explain it
I didn't do any distance rowing, distance trials, or anaerobic intervals to train for it.

The predicted decline, fully prepared, would be 6.8 seconds.

If I had rowed as a heavyweight at WIRC 2006 and pulled 6:29.7, I would have won the heavyweight 55s hammer by five seconds.

By just training at low rates?

Someone my size?

No one my size has ever come anywhere near sub-6:30 when they were 55, much less without preparing for it.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » March 15th, 2011, 2:47 pm

PaulH wrote:Clearly the more such technically progressed strokes you could demonstrate in a row the better, and every additional one would add to the quality of the demonstration. But really, two would be a start.
You just want to see strokes at low drag?

Because you don't believe I can do them?

Yikes.

I have been rowing at low drag for six months now, 20K a day.

Three or four million meters?

What are you interested in seeing--the monitor, me, what?

You _really_ believe that I am not rowing at low drag at all?

Wow.

I didn't realize you were _that_ suspicious.

As it turns out, the only thing I'll do at high drag will be 500m trials, which is normal for a lot of people.

I'll row everything else at 119 df.

I don't train at high drag at all.

I do all of my training at 119 df.

For the FM, I'll take, what, 3500 strokes at low drag (119 df.)?

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » March 15th, 2011, 2:57 pm

PaulH wrote:All I ask is that it demonstrate more than 1 stroke taken at 13 spi.
I have posted several videos of rowing at 13 SPI and above, all the way up to 16 SPI.

You want me to post these again, because you missed them?

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by PaulH » March 15th, 2011, 3:04 pm

ranger wrote:
PaulH wrote:Clearly the more such technically progressed strokes you could demonstrate in a row the better, and every additional one would add to the quality of the demonstration. But really, two would be a start.
You just want to see strokes at low drag?

Because you don't believe I can do them?
...
You _really_ believe that I am not rowing at low drag at all?
Tell me where I said I didn't believe you were rowing at low drag.

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