Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

Mike--

Rowing OTErg is exactly comparable to rowing OTW.

You'll only get better if you improve your technique.

For whatever reason, OTErg, your technique is _wretched_.

When you flick your legs out and tap dance on footplate, you need to pull 120 kg.F. of peak force.

What do you get now?

80 kgF.?

Post a force curve of your rowing when you are doing 1:58 @ 23 spm (9.5 SPI).

That will tell the story.

I see you erg in shoes.

Why?

I can't see what you are doing with the pressure points in your feet.

Given the shoes, can you feel these pressure points?

It looks to me as though you are just rocking from the balls of your feet to your heels.

You don't seem to get quickly back up on the balls of your feet as you swing your back.

Given this, your short-sliding, your leading with upper body, your crooked arms at the catch, etc., problems compound.

No wonder you only pull 9.5 SPI!

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

Byron: Have you noticed increase evidence of aphasia in our favorite lab rat? I have.
1. Inability to stay on subject
2. Increased incidence of emotional outbursts
3. Bizarre sense of humor
4. Delusions of grandeur

Hi Mike,

According to Wikipedia one of the symptoms of aphasia is persistent repetition of phrases. Does that sound like anybody we know?

Byron

[ranger]

Here's that 120 kg.F of peak force.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Byron: Have you noticed increase evidence of aphasia in our favorite lab rat? I have.
1. Inability to stay on subject
2. Increased incidence of emotional outbursts
3. Bizarre sense of humor
4. Delusions of grandeur

Hi Mike,

According to Wikipedia one of the symptoms of aphasia is persistent repetition of phrases. Does that sound like anybody we know?

Byron

Byron... going to be taking a break from this thread... regards to all except one...

I will not even read it. PM me when ranger retires from posting.

= Mike

[Byron Drachman]

I think I'll also take a break.

[NavigationHazard]

That's 15 x 1' r18 on 2" rest. Per the PM, average 1:38.7 pace 364w so 20.2 spi. Rep #15 was 375w so 20.6 spi.

Proof of the absurdity of extrapolating from out-of-context spi figures: if I could just train myself to row a 500m piece at 20.6 spi and 50 spm I'd row a 1:09.7. And break Leo Young's 20-year-old record by eight tenths of a second. And at double the d add 3, let's see:

00500m 01:09.7
01000m 02:25.4 (1:12.7 pace)
02000m 05:02.8 (1:15.7 pace)
05000m 13.22.0 (1:20.2 pace)
10000m 27:44.0 (1:23.2 pace)
20000m 57:28.0 (1:26.2 pace)

etc.

If my Rangermaths are correct, on the basis of my workout tonight I have the potential to row a virtual HM at 5:44.8 /2k pace. Whoop -de -do. I'd better get started on that 40 x 500 @ 1:20.2 pace / paddle a 500..... But first, let me do two hours working with 1:12.7 pace while channeling Elvis..... I too am back out of here. My new boat is being delivered and I have better things to do.

[mrfit]

Well, that ends another day on the ranger-go-round. A few riders got sick on their ponies and left. That's the thing with this ride. Did everyone else have fun? Ranger's sure to stir in few hours and wind it all up again. Watch!

[RonnieColeman]

Proof of the absurdity of extrapolating from out-of-context spi figures: if I could just train myself to row a 500m piece at 20.6 spi and 50 spm I'd row a 1:09.7. And break Leo Young's 20-year-old record by eight tenths of a second. And at double the d add 3, let's see:

Bingo. You can't just say "all I need to do is row at X spm and I'll hit Y split". Rich, are you ever going to do a full out 2k again? Rather than just projecting. Over/under ranger's FM 1:57.5.

[ranger]

Delusions of grandeur

Delusions?

Hardly.

Just the opposite.

Fait accompli.

Been there, done that.

As a complete novice, never having been in a boat, without any coaching on the erg, heck, without ever having erged with anyone but myself and so not even knowing how to row, heck, without even knowing how to train for rowing, I pulled 6:27.5, four seconds under the 50s lwt WR at the time, in my first race.

No one my size and age had ever done anything remotely similar.

At the time, no lightweight veteran had ever rowed better than 6:31.6, and that was the famous Jean-Paul Tardieu.

At the time, no one in my age and weight category was rowing much better than 6:35.

There isn't anything more "grand" in a sport than breaking the WR in your event.

Breaking a WR by a large margin is another issue.

That is even rarer.

Breaking a WR by a large margin as a total novice in your first competition in a heavily technical sport puts the whole thing entirely over the top.

That's a bit like some random guy in street clothes, without any training in the high jump (e.g., without practicing the flop, etc.), running out onto the field in the Olympic stadium and bounding over a bar set at 9', just to show that, all things considered, he has some pretty springy legs.

What's up with that?

Well, this year, now that I finally row well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.) and am again preparing to race, rather than just training, I think I might get around to providing an answer.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, if you row well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.), for distance rowing, you can lighten up considerably, e.g., to 12 SPI, and even so, you only need to rate 25 spm in order to pull 1:45 pace.

Just stroking naturally, many of the best ergers can row for an hour at 26 spm, or even 27 spm ("base pace").

Given my short little lightweight legs, pulling 12 SPI at 119 df., I am still in close to a 4-to-1 ratio.

.5 seconds for the drive.

1.9 seconds for the recovery.

That's pretty relaxing business.

A bit of work.

Then lunch.

A bit of work.

Then home for dinner with the wife and kids.

ranger

[lancs]

1:48 is _low_ UT1 (155 bpm).

Then why can't you row 10k @ 1:48?

[ranger]

Given his huge legs and upper body, pulling with about the same stroking power, or less (11 SPI?), and even so, at high drag (140 df.), Nav's ratios when he doing distance rowing must be massively smaller than mine, in fact, close to half.

2-to-1, not 4-to-1

Hmm.

Racing ratios like 2-to-1 are quite a bit harder to manage over long distances, if you are still working pretty hard on the drive.

Not very relaxing business at all.

Lots of work.

No lunch.

Then more work.

No dinner at all.

Then all night at the office.

If it is maintained for any prolonged period of time, the result of a work schedule of this sort is predictable:

Lights out.

ranger

[macroth]

a heavily technical sport

Erging is not heavily technical. Your 2003 performances are one of many examples of just how unimportant "standard" or "proper" technique can be.

Conversely, your OTW performances and 8 years of work on your erg "technique" have shown just how much of a klutz you are, although the problem is actually threefold:

- learning new skills at 50+ can be hard; we're all in the same boat in that respect;
- you have poor body awareness, coupled with an inability and/or unwillingness to detect or concede faults that are visible on video;
- you're ignorant and confused about human physiology and biomechanics.

As a result, you've been slaving away, slowly but surely reinforcing mostly improper technique.

[ranger]

Your 2003 performances are one of many examples of just how unimportant "standard" or "proper" technique can be.

Not at all.

If I pull 6:16 at 60, it will show that, even on the erg, good technique in rowing can be worth as much as seven seconds per 500m, almost a half a minute over 2K, a _gigantic_ amount for anyone like me who rows at WR pace, and, I would expect, a pretty precious amount for _anyone_, no matter how talented or fit.

Whoever you are, it is _very_ hard to improve your 2K by a half a minute just by working on your fitness.

In recent times, beside myself, no male WR-holder, 40-70, has ever improved _at all_ by working on their fitness.

They have all just gotten worse and worse, often precipitously.

ranger

[ranger]

Hugely smooth and relaxed stroke now, 1:30 @ 40 spm (12 SPI).

2-to-1 ratio, right on the money.

.5 seconds for the drive.

1.0 seconds for the recovery.

119 df.

There's my AN stroke, for 8 x 500m and 1K.

Back in 2002-2003, I also did 8 x 500m and 1K at 40 spm, but 4 seconds per 500m slower.

10.5 SPI rather than 12 SPI.

My technique is much better now.

I have now lowered the drag from max to 119 df., using length and quickness with my legs (in good timing with my other levers) to generate pace instead of short-sliding, diving at the catch, and hauling anchor with my upper body, dragging my legs behind.

I now row well.

ranger