Pete Plan 2017

[ms_minnie]

Sorry for answering only now and to barge in in another discussion, but I was out of town and have seen your answers for my question (page 87) only just..
and I wanted to thank you all for your answers!! It's a good feeling to know that I'm doing kind of the right thing

[mdpfirrman]

@ Cal - That's awesome on the 5K time! I remember how excited I was the first time I broke 20 on the 5K. That's a huge milestone for sure. Lot's more to come from you!

@ Gordon - Wise words from Rod and from Everett. I've had to remind myself of the fact it's not always about the numbers this year. I was caught up a lot of the year in destroying my PB time on the 2K. It didn't happen. I put the training in. Every time my numbers looked better on the PP, I ended up getting ill. Getting ill over 50 sucks. I imagine even worse over 60. It's not fair. Aging sucks. But I remember all the massive gains you made this year throughout the BPP. At times, when nearly everyone fell off, you were consistent with it and made huge strides. The issue with aerobic ability and aging is that if you have a leave or sickness, it not only takes twice as long to ramp back up, but you lose pace twice as quickly. It will come back with time. I've gone through the exact same things you have recently. What's our other options though? I remember going through Bob Spengler's last few posts (mostly because he corrected me on some chemist/nutritional posts I had made -- I was a bit worried that his last post on here would be one correcting me, which would be par for the course for me!!). Bob passed earlier this year. There's been a lot of tributes to him. Set nearly every WR on the C2 for over 90 years old. Turns out his last few posts were discussions with Jack (Bob was mentally as sharp as ever -- more than I'll ever be mentally in my lifetime!). He had a recent knee surgery, I think. He was trying to figure out how to get a hook device to help him reach the handle of the rower so he could get some meters in! Can you imagine that mindset? He couldn't bend over far enough to reach the handle, so in his mind, the only thing stopping him was not having a hook! This was in the weeks before he passed. He's a hero to a lot of us on here. The 30 something guys crushing times is nice, but I can't relate. I related better to the aging guys trying to hold on to what they can as far as not only athletic performance but also (more importantly) functional fitness. It took me two decades of wasting my physical abilities to realize that every day I wasn't moving, I was dying just a bit. I intend on fighting the good fight like Bob did every day. What an inspirational motivator he was. Don't concentrate on the numbers so much, just enjoy the fact that you can row and that your health is (hopefully) better than it was last year. If that means not doing the full PP (which is grueling), then don't. Just enjoy rowing when you feel like it.

[rlboyles]

Mike - You had an interesting comment about how training in your youth may affect things like ultimate heart size, etc. That is interesting, and makes some sense, as the heart is being stressed, thus would respond by being stronger/larger and since you are growing, everything around it may adapt to accomodate the larger heart?! Interesting.

I am excited to check out the Ed McNeely reference you gave. I don’t know about you all, but I read all types of rowing books, one after the other. Great motivation and insight.

Mike – in terms of you 2k test – go for it. I have found through the years of sports, and more recently with rowing that a competition that pushes you to your limits is often the best training to get your body to jump to the next level. It's competition, but it's training at the highest level. You say to yourself that it’s only 2000m, but that 2000m pushes you to a level of exertion and makes your body repair and recover in a way that overcomes plateau’s. I think you need that to keep moving forward. This spring, I was using 5k tests every other Sunday as my competition test to shock my body to reach a new level.

Calalli – cool. I am the same way… sometimes I totally switch plans and start to feel it and go for it. You get out of the structure of the program, but the benefit to yourself is actually greater in my mind.

Everett – you look like you have some aerobic capacity!

[calalli]

Gordon: I agree with the others, don't worry so much. Maybe just sit down with the monitor covered and just row a bit, feel the rhythm again without a thought about performance.
Paul: thanks for the encouragement but the only PB I will be going for next week is the amount of Rum and Red Stripe beer consumed daily
rlboyles: I have not been completely rigid with the BPP but I have tried to stay with it overall. My plan is to repeat week 10 when I return from my break so I felt I could cheat it a bit.
Mike: thanks again for the kind words. I am excited, I really had no expectation of breaking 20 so soon, I just broke 8 on the 2k less than a week ago. I am still early on the curve so PBs should come pretty often I guess. The big thing for me is I am no longer feeling intimidated by the 2:00/500M pace.

1/6/17 BPP 10.3 8000M - I wanted to try a low rate session like Scott does - it was harder than I expected, individual strokes were all over the place on rate and watts.
Time Meters /500m Watts Cal/Hr s/m
34:54.6 8,000m 2:10.9 156 836 18
7:03.0 1,600m 2:12.1 152 821 18 132
7:01.4 3,200m 2:11.6 153 827 18 134
7:00.9 4,800m 2:11.5 154 829 18 138
6:55.4 6,400m 2:09.8 160 850 18 142
6:53.9 8,000m 2:09.3 162 856 18 146

That is it for a while - good luck with the training everyone.

[mdpfirrman]

@ Cal - see you back soon! You should consider coming down to Cincy this Winter and crushing me on the Indoor Regatta. It would be a pleasure to lose my "title" (I beat two decent 60 something year olds this year to win -- barely!) to you. By this Winter, you should be outpacing me I'm sure. If not, we'd have fun racing each other.

OK, ended up doing the 2K test today. Wasn't pretty, but here's the log on it:

Log:

2K Timed Today (Test after one Round of PP and another round that was interrupted with being sick).

400 / 1:49.3 / 27
800 / 1:51.2 / 25
1200 / 1:52.0 / 25
1600 / 1:52.6 / 25
2000 / 1:53.0 / 25

7:26.5 / 2000 / 1:51.6 / 25 SPM

Probably to be expected. Felt like, based on PP, I could be around a 7:24. Didn't take a day off this week and lifted this week. The Waterfall took a lot out of me two days ago. Had I taken today off (or just did a few fast sprints), and paced it better, probably could have hit 7:24. Also, was racing against the "pace boat" for the first time. Not exactly adrenaline inducing! My PB (and the one that nearly tied it) were both set on race days and the first one was by 7 seconds, so this is a pretty accurate benchmark for me right now.

SPM is much lower, though. Shows all the SS work with higher drag did build my strength, because my power per stroke is much stronger. Now, just have to get the SPM back up to 27 or 28 again and not lose much power. (End of Log)

Not terrible. Proud of myself for doing it. First hard test in a gym in a while. Nearly cracked up laughing at myself when I was around 700 meters from the finish. Some woman on the lifting equipment was looking at me pretty funny - like God, I hope he doesn't die! Took my mind off things for a second and allowed me to relax a bit and bring it home. Not happy with the splits, but I did give it my best effort. Even managed to get in a light lift afterward.

@ rlboyles - here's the two articles I was referring to. The first one is actually an article about the heart sizes. At first, docs were concerned that an enlarged heart might lead to a heart attack. These guys they studied showed them they are actually very healthy, just have huge heart muscles that have been equipped over time to withstand the long duration cardio and power that rowing requires. The one rower, Bryan Volpenhein, is a local product near my home.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/790167

Here's the Ed McNeely article too. I modify the workout to 20 seconds, not 10 (because you can't program 10 seconds on the PM). It's a brutally hard workout. I've never made it to 20 yet. I think 16 was my best without losing that 10% power he talks about (when you want to stop until you recover fully then resume). I've never done it more than once a week.

https://peakcentre.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... rformance/

[Bor]

Hi all,

Rob here, 30 years old, from the Netherlands. New to rowing, I have a C2 for a week now.
Great forum, lots of useful information.

I haven't done much exercising the last 5 years; started running several times but always quit after 2-3 months due to boredom. I do cycle (in the city) quite a lot, just home-work distances.

Currently working through the five 'new to rowing' workouts from the C2 website.

I plan to start with a training scheme next week, either the BPP or the Interactive Program. Leaning towards the BPP so far.

Is that a good plan for a beginner?

Enjoy your rowing all!
Thanks!
Rob

[G-dub]

Mike - at r25! That's nicely better than 10 w/s I think.

[mdpfirrman]

Mike - at r25! That's nicely better than 10 w/s I think.

Thanks Glenn. Now if I can just remember what a high SPM feels like! And be able to maintain that.

[mdpfirrman]

That one link above didn't work for some reason on the heart sizes of top rowers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/07/healt ... ts.html?th

This might work better (referring back to the same study).

[Slacker]

Here's the Ed McNeely article too. I modify the workout to 20 seconds, not 10 (because you can't program 10 seconds on the PM). It's a brutally hard workout. I've never made it to 20 yet. I think 16 was my best without losing that 10% power he talks about (when you want to stop until you recover fully then resume). I've never done it more than once a week.

https://peakcentre.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... rformance/

Hi Mike,
I've been trying this as well. I set the interval to 20s on / 50s off and just stop rowing when the monitor reads 10s. I have trouble working it into the schedule more than once a week as well. I did it this morning followed by my planned 35 min row. Only slower and as a long cool down instead of a stand alone row.

[hjs]

Mike - at r25! That's nicely better than 10 w/s I think.

Thanks Glenn. Now if I can just remember what a high SPM feels like! And be able to maintain that.

Browse through this https://www.instagram.com/samblythe/?hl=en

Will give you some ideas. Rate 25 is just silly..

[G-dub]

We always pick on Mike about this! I don't think I'd do a 10k TT at r25! Maybe and hour test. I think the point that gets lost is that you don't have to bring the heaviest load you can handle when you go up in rate. Rating up enables us and it doesn't have to make us more tired. Nice job on the come back trail though!

[Rowan McSheen]

Nice going Cal! Sometimes you get a day when it just feels right and you think "what the hell, I'm gonna hammer it", rather than psycheing up for a formal attempt. Sub-8 2K and sub-20 5K are two of my goals ... maybe soon. Enjoy the holiday blowout, sensible idea to repeat a week when you're back.

Welcome Bor ... the beginners' Pete plan is as good a place as any to start, it covers all the basics from long and slow to short and fast and everything in between.

Gordon: sorry to hear this. But it happens to all of us. I think one of the reasons I enjoy my erging is that I don't do that much of it, three sessions a week maximum. And some variety - three days of running a week. The two sports combine nicely. Also, the thing about the full-fat PP is that it's geared to constant incremental improvements for competition and if you're erging 5-6 times a week the workouts come round again quickly and I found that boredom and frustration at plateauing set in (my best times in all sports are 15 years old at least). In the past when I've got fed up of either erging or running I've stepped back, taken a week or so off, and then resumed with plenty of low-intensity brain-in-neutral cardio stuff while planning a schedule with variety to keep it interesting. In fact, this is where I am with my running at the moment. Despite doing a few races recently I feel it's stagnating so I'll forget the paces for a while and just go out and ramble and enjoy the scenery. Maybe that would work for you? Oh, and nothing wrong about being an old fool on an erg at 60 - we do it so we can be an old fool doing the same at 70 and beyond!

[sdr2017]

Mike, nice job on the 2K. I know it is not a personal best, but it is a good hard row and it sounds like your SPM and pacing are effective. I am not sure how to psych-up vs psych-out myself for attempts at a PB. Since I am new to it, I assume I have more personal best in my future. At some point they get a lot harder--when all the easy improvement is gone. I know one could sign up for an actual race with a date and focus on that. Would it also make sense to schedule a few weeks where one tries a 2K each week with the intention of going all out on it? I was planing on something like that after I get done with the BPP. In any case, keep up the good work. (I liked your inspirational talk for Gordon.)

Cal--You are having a great week! Wow, 2K and 5K PB with nice benchmark times. Have a great vacation and I look forward to seeing you back here.

Welcome Everett.

I began week 11 on BPP

BPP 11.1 10K:
44:52.1 10000 2:14.6 18
splits:
8:59.1 2000 2;14.7 19
8:54.4 4000 2:13.6 19
8:59.2 6000 2:14.8 18
9:02.4 8000 2:15.6 19
8:57.4 10000 2:14.3 19

PB! (Ok, it was my first official 10K. It is still a good excuse to celebrate.)

BPP 11.2 8 X 500 /r2
01:54.6 500 25
01:54.3 500 25
01:57.4 500 24
01:57.3 500 25
01:58.0 500 25
01:57.5 500 26
01:58.7 500 25
01:56.9 500 27

Ha! I had a block about 2 min paces, and the one fast row last week convinced me that I should be able to get beyond it. I am very pleased with this set of intervals, where the average is just under 1:57. They hurt! (I keep saying things like that and it keeps being true.) I was particularly pleased with the reasonable SPM for most of these. It is certainly not a sustainable pace for me, but it is nice to be able to put together some solid <2 min intervals.

[rlboyles]

Mike - good hard row! The more you test yourself I believe the better you will get.

Everyone gets used to a certain SPM, but it seems that 25 avg is low. Most races that I've read about - even in water (I know nothin' bout no water rowin'), use mid 30's or more. I think it's easier to go faster at those rates.

I built a base early this spring with 19-22 spm and some 22 thru 28 intervals. I liked the low spm and power, but when I switched to the PP I went to higher spm.

I know the transition is tough cause the first couple weeks of PP my muscles were burning and I would fade cause my body wasn't used to higher spm, but because I had a base of power, my body quickly adapted and then felt I was faster at higher spm.

For almost the entirety of the PP I used 32 thru 36 spm and sometimes more for sprint finishes. I even largely did the steady state rowing at 32-34 spm because I figured that if my body physiology got used to the higher rates it would perform better at the higher rates, so I didn't want to train at one set of rates and race at another. I had the philosophy that you get good at what you do most often.

To me, higher spm is more of an aerobic way of doing things, but it's amazing how quickly your body transitions to get used the higher breathing rate.

I'm sure others can chime in and give their perspectives, but that's how I look at it.