Pete Plan 2017

[mdpfirrman]

@ rlboyles - that's SO impressive after two years of rowing! Especially at your height. Let's face it, rowing is a skill that it certainly helps to be tall. You're my height (I assume just much stronger than me). I appreciate the tips on the 2K, but honestly, I couldn't do the paces that you're capable of doing. If I went out at a 1:40, I'd be completely done after 500m! You take for granted your own strength and ability. Out of curiosity (as someone roughly your age and height), do you have an athletic background in the past? As an observer, I like to know what people capable (at our age) of doing a sub 7 2K do differently than me. I'm not sure I'll ever go sub 7. Even if I don't, I'm enjoying the health benefits of trying. I think, in part, those that I've seen capable of doing sub 7 (in general) have a history of solid cardio or athletics or have consistently trained most of their adult lives. I, unfortunately, didn't stay consistent in my adult life. By the way, that time would put you in the top 5 in this year's rankings and in the top 65 or so in the world of last year's rankings. You should be very proud of that!

@ Stu - Don't let one bad row discourage you! That stuff happens. Hope you're not getting sick. That's usually when I have unexpectedly rough rows.

@ Dyson - that's a really solid 5K! Sometimes you have to take a break from it if you have to. I would imagine travel and rowing would be very hard! Huge progress from not long ago. The weight will come off with time if you just continue to work on it.

[sdr2017]

Riboyles, that 2K was amazing. Congratulations!

Cal, lots of rowing--two 8K at a good pace and then going under 8 min on your 2K, congratulations. I agree with others that the last 500 M indicates you can go much faster.

Mike, good job going under 20 on the 5K. It was not too far from your PB, so you must be getting into good shape.

BPP week 10.3

8000 M, 35:48.5 2:14.2 19

It was just a bit faster than the last one with a similar profile and negative splits.

[calalli]

Riboyles: Wow, amazing 2000. I think I saw a 1:49.+ on the PM once, one stroke. Can't imagine that kind of sustained pace.

Dyson: Nice 5K - you have shaved 10+ seconds off your pace in 3 mths! We all hit plateaus on the weight loss. Don't stress about it, it'll come if you keep at it.

Stu: Onwards and upwards is right! If it wasn't there it wasn't there - you have a great attitude about it.

Mike: I tend to look at the same things - what is someone else doing that I can learn from. I need to keep reminding myself I am rowing to lose weight and get fit first of all. If I start competing I'll push too hard, if I push too hard I'll get hurt, if I get hurt I'll stop rowing, if I stop rowing I'll get fatter. So I need to remember to just row and lose weight.

Scott: Improvement every week and negative splits! I still can't get over your rate on these, a lot of power in your stroke. I think next week I am going to limit myself to a r19 on one of the 8K rows to see if I can do that.

I just finished the 90 day P90 program and am planning to do a week of light stretching and yoga next week and then a vacation the following week. I am wondering if I should continue with the BPP next week or take a break from it as well? Does anyone regularly do a recovery period or do you grind it out week after week? I was thinking just some medium SS work next week before vacation and then repeat week 9 when I return. Just curious how others approach this.

[derico]

Have managed to row daily through month of May - mostly 30 minute pieces - and plan to join PP or BPP on my return from holiday. Here's my marker for hopeful improvement in the months to come when I become very friendly with UT2 & UT1!

Intervals
Time Meters /500m Watts Cal/Hr s/m
23:57.5 6,000m 1:59.7 204 1000 21
7:55.5 2,000m 1:58.8 208 1016 21 157
8:03.1 2,000m 2:00.7 199 983 20 72
7:58.9 2,000m 1:59.7 204 1001 23 148
r2,261m

[mdpfirrman]

@ Cal - I don't think it's a bad idea to take some time off occasionally, but I'm not a competitive rower. I think you lose just a bit by taking a week off. But at the same time, it does help your body recover. This past Fall, I took 2 weeks off in Mexico and didn't have access to a rower. I tried to swim and lift as much as I could. Still lost a bit of zip from the jetlag and the lack of cardio. Hope you're going somewhere fun! I'm jealous (and overdue for a vacation myself). As an aside, saw you were in Akron. I'm in Ohio too (between Dayton and Cincy).

@ Derico - that's a great base to start the PP. I don't know if you need to start with the BPP, I'd consider just starting the PP instead. Those are decent intervals too. I started the full PP with doing 3 times a week rowing (along with other cardio) for around 6 months. I did a 5K, a 30' row and a 10K row each weekly, pushing each one hard. This was definitely enough base to start the PP for me. Only thing I modified the first couple times was taking one SS day off (to row only 5 days a week). After doing this a couple times, I moved to the full PP (6 days a week). Welcome!

[sdr2017]

Derico, Welcome (back?) to PP. It looks like you have a great starting position.

Today was play time! I wanted to try a fast 500--I have never done one outside of an interval session. I did a warm up and warm down with one 500 M in the middle.

1:45.2 500 1:45.2 35
Splits:
21.9 100 1:49.5 33
20.3 200 1:41.5 35
20.5 300 1:42.5 35
20.9 400 1:44.5 37
21.4 500 1:47.0 36

I was very pleased. I had two problems. The first is that the machine was sliding back and forth on the carpet. I have not had that problem before. Any suggestions? The second is that I was tiring at the end and just bouncing back and forth and probably not delivering power very efficiently. I clearly need some experience at higher rates to figure out how to do them well.

It was a fun session and a nice change from long slow rowing sessions.

[mmwgw]

back to the Pete Plan after some time off.

two intervals this week

today 5x1500 @ 1:58.3 average
couple of days ago 8x500 1:48.3

forgot how 'enjoyable' it is

[mdpfirrman]

From the log today:

PP W3 D1
1000 / 1:49.8 / 27
1000 / 1:49.8 / 27
1000 / 1:51.4 / 27
1000 / 1:54.5 / 25

4000 / 1:51.4 / 26

Not a great workout. Was hoping to be around 1:50.3 or 1:50.2, so I'm way off on times right now and I'm tracking around a 7:24 2K right now.

End of log.

Pretty much sums up how I felt. Wheels came off the last two intervals. Not where I want to be right now training wise but with all the flus / colds / bacterial infections, etc I had this Winter, I suppose this is where I am right now - around 4 seconds off my PB 2K times. Frustrating for all the work I put in last Fall. Again, if I start to really show great progress on the PP, I'm going to test right away and not waste the potential next time. Did a lift after the row and around 10 more minutes on the Stairmaster.

@ mm - welcome to the group. You and I would be very competitive right now. Roughly the same paces.

@ Scott - Nice 500 time! Just be careful with those. Make sure the form is good or they can really tweak the back. The more intense the sprints, the easier it is to tweak the back. Form becomes most important (along with warmups), the shorter and the more intense the work.

[rlboyles]

Thank you to those that sent good will after my 2k result.

I'm sure I share this feeling with a lot of you on the Pete Plan group page, I really believe that posting results on this page is a great motivator for me to keep getting better and put up better and better times. I want to post better times as a challenge to myself, but I also like the drive and encouragement that the group provides.

Keep up the good work all! I break a sweat and get motivated every time I read someone else's post!

[rlboyles]

Mike, you had asked a question that I also ask myself on this page – how did “so and so” get to where they are? What are they doing different than myself? I don’t think there are any secrets, but I do think that learning from each other is a great dimension of the Pete Plan page.

The following is a reflection of some of the things I did that I think have helped me get faster. I really believe that any and all of us can make huge jumps in 2k times.
For me, I think there were quite a few things that made a difference in my times this year. If I had to pick just one thing as an overarching reason for my improvement, it was that I put a challenge to myself to see how fast I could do a 2k on “X” date. In the last 2 years, I trained for all the right reasons (general fitness, heart health, etc.), but this spring I looked at things differently. I picked a date and said to myself – lets see how far you can push it by that date. This was the goal that fed all my thinking.

The next overarching thought that changed my approach was that instead of thinking like I have (like most of us old guys do…!) for years and years, in regards to thinking of each day as “getting a workout.” Instead, I filtered everything I did through the mindset of --- “Will this make me faster tomorrow? Will this help me take a step forward, rather than just maintain? Am I improving each and every day?”

These overarching goals or visions led to a number of nuts and bolts things I did this Spring that helped me make big gains.

Nuts and bolts:
The most important of them was focusing on recovery. As an old guy, recovery I believe is the biggest downfall I have experienced compared to my youth. In my 30’s and 40’s and now 50’s, as a week of training goes on, I have faded. This spring, I have done everything I can to help with recovery. Number#1 was 8+ hours of sleep EVERY night (9+ at least twice during the work week plus weekends). Upon doing that, I found that YES, I can improve each and every day – but I really had to discipline myself and organize my life. Doing this, I was amazed to find that I could have a great workout on Friday afternoon after work! Other recovery items I used – I pounded the protein powder because I believe those that say that old guys don’t synthesize protein for muscle building as well as they did when they were young. When I was younger, I never saw any improvement with protein powder. Didn’t need it. Now I do. In the AM, and directly after a workout.

Another insight that came to me this spring – in the past, I used rowing as a means of weight control. But along with that, I would reduce the carbs I would intake because carbs are what cause me to gain weight. I think this is a common old guy dilemma. Well, I finally came to the realization that you can’t work out super hard, and the restrict carbs (especially if an old guy wants to do the Pete Plan!). I went the OTHER way, I found that by taking in more carbs, I was able to recover much better, and thus work out much harder, make more improvement, and did not gain unwanted weight --- BUT rather built muscle because I recovered quicker and built up rather than breaking down. I think to make this approach work, you have to really commit to working your %$#% off, but it can be a positive improvement spiral as long as you are really putting in the work. It seems like this approach would go the other way and cause great weight gain, but for me it did not, but helped greatly with my energy and intensity of workout. This was a big part of my improvement compared to the past. As funny as it sounds, I would eat more carbs, and drink a 32oz. Gatorade each day (1/2 bottle diluted with water before a workout, and ½ bottle diluted with water directly after a workout).

In terms of training, I found a good way to mix things other than rowing that I think are important – lifting and running. I know a lot of people think that both detract from rowing, but I believe they are both important parts of getting better as a rower. I found a way to lift 5 times a week. My philosophy is to do basically 3 Base exercises twice each week and fit the rest of auxillaries in as needed. I made it a goal to try to lift for only 20 minutes each day (15 min even better… and I am really mad if it takes 25 min) – and always BEFORE I row (in fact, the lifting is a great warmup!). I always do lifting before rowing and don’t think of it as a detractor to my rowing, but as a necessary part of my rowing. I emphasize 3 Bases – squats, deads, and any form of back exercise possible (mostly all body wt type – pull ups, chin ups, supine pull ups). I do the legs by themselves twice and upper body/auxillaries twice a week (again mostly back exercises with auxillaries) but often the upper body/auxillaries is spread out over 3 days to keep each workout short (20 min or less) and do each thing twice a week. A part of this 5 days is 4 days of Core – two hard, two light. I do a lot of pushups as core, but never bench press. I believe in heavy weights and low reps on squats and deads. 6-10 reps. That is something Brad Lewis writes about in his book Lido for Time. I agree.

I also really believe in running as a way to expand my aerobic capacity. I am amazed at how poorly I run (both huff and puff wise, and hip flexor endurance wise) if I just row… and then randomly do a run once in awhile. I find that by running & rowing, it expands my aerobic base. So, on my steady state days, I lift for 15 minutes, then go run 20-30 minutes, then row for 25 minutes. This is basically like one continuous workout.

Next, in the past, I have never really committed to developing an aerobic base. I began training the last week of January. I did not start the Pete Plan till 8 weeks before my 2k test. Up until then, I did a modified/loosely based (aka shorter) version of this somewhat wacky program. http://alexkrupp.typepad.com/sensemakin ... owing.html
I split the long row sessions into 30 min. AM, and 30-45 min PM. I did the 3x10 minutes workout (often could only fit 2x in) or 4x5minutes. I liked the philosophy of lower SPM and longer reps to build a base. I do not believe there is a SCIENTIFICALLY based rowing program anywhere in the world. Probably even Jurgen Grobler’s program is a gut feel thing.

Next, I took a week of recovery between weeks of PP. In the past I did not, but found I have to make sure that when I do the PP I get better every day, not spiral down without recovering as I had done last summer with I did PP.

Another thing that helped - until this spring, I had never rowed more than 3 or 4 days a week. I would blow off the SS rows because I needed the recovery time. The SS rows are still part of my weakness, and next year I must do better here, but at least I committed to 6 days, and was able to get better each week with doing so.
Those are some of the things that helped me.

Due to family and work commitments, I will have to really back off of rowing from now till December. I will keep a base of fitness, and do cross training, but will not be able to make a concerted effort to get better at rowing. On the bright side, this year, I was off till the end of January (so about 4 months push up to this May), whereas hopefully next spring’s push will start in December (so 6 months push to a good 2k time in May).

In regards to my athletic background, I’m not sure that it is the thing that got me better this year. I have a history of HS & College Football, HS & College Track, HS wrestling, Triathlons in my late 30’s, and a bunch of other things like club lacrosse, rugby, etc. thrown in there, but, I believe that what I found was that the biggest difference was my focus this spring… the difference between --- maintaining as I had done in the past --- and improving ---- is a fine line that I feel that any of us can do if we try. I had been away from basically all forms of fitness from about age 40 thru 49, so I was in poor health when I started 2 years ago, so my first 2 years my focus was on general fitness. I think that is the difference.

I think if I put this type of focus in over 6 months next spring, I can break 6:40. I really believe that a 1:39.9 pace for 2k is doable. To do so will require me to be more disciplined with LONG steady rows to expand my aerobic base, and the other thing that I never got time to do (even with the Pete Plan) was really get comfortable with really high speed rows. Then I believe the 1:39.9 average will feel manageable. I believe all of us can go way beyond where we are now.

Feel free to comment on your own insights that have gotten you better. I know there are a lot more. We can all learn from the collective knowledge of the group!

[Rowan McSheen]

Greetings all, and welcome to Derico.

BPP week 13 optional 4th session: 8,000m concentrating on technique and low spm.
2:13.5, pretty much even splits throughout @ 19/20 spm, very sticky humid day here so the sweat flowed freely but hr was comfortably within UT2 at all times.

This would have been a fairly major undertaking not so many weeks ago but today it was a breeze. Felt really good. And just the ticket for the legs after a 10k road race yesterday.

[hepting]

@Riboyles Thanks for the insight. Being close to the same age (though not having had your success.. yet ) I totally agree with a lot of your points. Especially the comment about carbs - in the past I have always gone the low carb route when trying to drop weight. This time around I have added in good carbs and have seen a significant increase in my workout results. Clearly this are related. Of course one of the keys was to include good complex carbs - not junk. I also agree with the sleep and recovery days.

@mdpfirrman Hang in there and thanks for posting your workouts when they don't go as planned. As you recover from a tough winter I suspect you will make some big leaps. Full disclosure helps us all keep things in perspective. Face it just getting on and giving a hard effort regardless of results does yield results. We only get better if we stick with it. At times I think we get too focused on the numbers and feel like we failed if we don't hit the goal. One of the things I love about OTW rowing is I don't even look at the #'s. Somehow I always feel good afterwards!

As an update I have stepped away from the BPP for a few weeks as I was in a bit if a rut. I did try the Cross Team Challenge this week for the first time. For those of you that aren't familiar it is a C2 supported diversion - where each month one of the indoor rowing "teams" picks a workout and all the teams compete for the month. For May it was 10X30 seconds with 1 minute rest. I did it 2x with a total of 1,608 (1:33.2 avg) , and 1,624 meters (1:32.3 avg) . A "fun" short workout that clearly focuses on raw power and quick recovery. A nice change from 10k's. I plan on getting back to the BPP this week.

[mdpfirrman]

@ rlboyles - thanks so much for taking the time out and giving such a long and detailed answer to my question. I think that helps everyone understand what time and type of commitment it takes to really improve (and go sub 7). I agree (and do) most all of the training tips you mentioned. Temporarily I've been sleep deprived a bit with two new puppies in the house, but they are soon going to reach the age where I can get back to sleeping 8 hours. I think the difference I see between us is mostly with our historic base of cardio. You, having been involved in not only football and rugby, but more importantly wrestling and track, gives you a much stronger cardio history than me. I was a baseball, football guy (and intramural basketball). Nothing I really did in my youth was sustained cardio like what you did. It was obvious how bad my cardio was when I took a "Joy of Running" class my sophomore year in college. I do think that the heart can be hard-wired, so to speak, from an early age. There are physiological adaptations (that are permanent) if you grow up doing more cardio based work. I read a really interesting study (that a gold medalist rower from my area participated in) about the heart size of top level rowers. Their heart size was actually the largest of any endurance athletes and in some cases, their hearts were double the size of the average person. If you're a horse racing fan, you remember about Secretariat. They found that his heart size was double the normal size of other horses. You can actually train that when you're young to a degree. I think less so as you age. You can certainly get your heart to adapt (my resting HR has gone from around 63 to 52 since I started rowing), but I'm not convinced I can ever get it to adapt as much as I need to get down to a 6:40. I'll be lucky to ever get to 7, despite working 6 days a week year around. My lifting concepts are similar to yours as well. Same with nutrition. Overall, though, I agree with you completely on working toward a goal. The human body is an amazing machine, capable of way more than the average person realizes, simply because they never work hard enough and aren't consistent. The fact that you lift before your rowing is impressive. I've done that before for long periods of time but my rowing times do suffer though I find it overall improves my training. It's very hard.

@ Dyson - that monthly challenge is a fantastic way to stay involved if you get bored with the PP. If I wasn't so active on this thread, I'd probably do that too.

[Street]

Interesting read rlboyles.. Cheers!

[mdpfirrman]

That's one thing I forgot to mention. @rlboyles - you might look up the Ed McNeely power rowing workout - I think you'd like that as a way to feel more comfortable with higher ratings (and the time it would take you would fit into you spending less time rowing). I also forgot to mention that (although I've heard others mention it a while back), I do love the idea of taking a week off between PP rounds when you're a Masters rower. I think, had I done that this year, I probably wouldn't have gotten sick as much.