Ranger's training thread

[mikvan52]

A lot of ifs about this.

Of course.

Training is entirely hypothetical and future-oriented.

So: Was it "hypothetical" as to whether you trained today and was the distance you covered "future oriented"?
Right!

Equivocality will get you nowhere.

Have a
"Lots of... "
kind of future oriented day, Rich!

Fact of the matter: 10 years of intense erg training makes you a great erger... not a great sculler.
When the new impeller shows up you'll have verification.

Again: When's your first OTW event of your life going to be in that new "rocket ship" of yours? Then we'll see what "lots of" delivers.

[JohnBove]

Last year, no one my age and weight (or older) came within 20 seconds of my 2K time, even though I didn't prepare to race.

Dream on. Last year you failed to match the world record in your age group by some three seconds, even though you trained like a galley slave to do so. You're entirely ordinary. Get used to it.

[ranger]

So: Was it "hypothetical" as to whether you trained today

Not at all.

But what you choose to do when you train is entirely future-oriented.

Training not a performance.

It's an opportunity to get better.

If you have already reached your goals, there is nothing to train for.

There is no need to get better.

You are satisfied where you are.

So, all that there is left to do is to perform.

ranger

[ranger]

10 years of intense erg training makes you a great erger... not a great sculler.

True.

I am sure that my sculling will continue to improve technically for at least another ten years.

That should keep my interest up.

On the other hand, the erg is the measure of the most important element of boat speed, especially for older rowers: physical capacity.

So it is not at all irrelevant to OTW rowing.

If you maintain your technique (say, at 12 SPI), at the limits of your aerobic capacity, you will rate 32 spm for 1K on the erg, just as you do OTW.

At the limits of my aerobic capacity, I think I might still be able to get to 40 spm on the erg for 1K at at the same stroking power.

We'll soon see.

Then, I will carry that physical capacity to my work with technique OTW over the next decade.

ranger

[ranger]

Have a
"Lots of... "
kind of future oriented day, Rich!

Thanks.

That's the best you can do when you train:

Spend a lot of time and effort trying to get better.

ranger

[ranger]

When's your first OTW event of your life going to be in that new "rocket ship" of yours?

As I said, I won't race OTW until I have a good impression of how fast I can go for a range of extended distances (10K, 30min, 6K, 5K, 2K, 1K, 500m, etc.) and have progressed to the point that I am doing regular anaerobic intervals (500s, 1Ks, 2Ks, etc.) OTW, in organized ways (i.e., with a standard number of repetitions with a standard rest period).

So when I race OTW, it will be no mystery what happens.

My racing will just be a reflection of my training.

ranger

[PaulH]

We'll soon see.

Liar

[ranger]

10 years of intense erg training makes you a great erger... not a great sculler.

Sure.

But you are already a great sculler.

So what now?

IMHO, by avoiding the erg, you avoid your major weakness and therefore sell your future as a sculler down the river.

If I were you, I would get on the erg every morning before you go out OTW and do an hour or two of 1:45 @ 25 spm (12 SPI).

Never take a bad stroke.

12 SPI--over and over.

Doesn't matter how you do it.

Just do it.

5K, 1:45 @ 25 spm, might be a modest first goal.

Then move on from there--6K, 30min, 10K, 20K, etc.

This sort of training has nothing to do with performing.

It is training.

Getting better.

ranger

[ranger]

On the average, given current lifestyles and modes of training, from 30 years old to 60 years old, the decline in physical capacity (both skeletal-muscular and physiological) is eight seconds per 500m, both OTW and on the erg.

That's a lot.

I have the skeletal-muscular and physiological profile of a 30-year=old.

So, this is quite an advantage, regardless of how well I erg, scull, or play jacks and tiddly-winks.

ranger

[PaulH]

I have the skeletal-muscular and physiological profile of a 30-year=old.

Liar

[ranger]

I have the skeletal-muscular and physiological profile of a 30-year=old.

Liar

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Ages 30-39 | 2010 Season

1 Tamas Varga 31 HUN 6:08.1 RACE
2 Eskild Balschmidt Ebbesen 37 DEN 6:15.8 RACE
3 Brice Menet 30 Lille Un FRA 6:16.0 RACE
4 Mark Mitchell 35 Mad Team / Bexhill RC East Sussex GBR 6:18.1 RACE
5 Peter Ording 33 GER 6:22.9 RACE
6 Tim Male 34 Tideway Scullers Sch/ Thames Turbo Sigma Sport GBR 6:25.9 RACE
7 Toni Pyykkö 37 Ylöjärvi FIN 6:26.8 IND
8 Romain Delahaut 35 Chateau Thierry Av FRA 6:28.2 RACE
9 Yves Hocde 36 Perreux Sn FRA 6:29.2 RACE
10 Nicolas Jazede 35 Ile Saint Denis Rc FRA 6:30.6 RACE
11 André Costa 32 Porto Alegre RS BRA 6:31.1 IND
12 Wilfried Mariette 35 FRA 6:32.1 RACE
13 Simon Herbert 36 East Sussex Fire & Rescue Service GBR 6:32.7 RACE
14 Alban Rouxel 33 Mairie De Paris / D.E.V.E. FRA 6:34.0 RACE
15 Jonathan Doyle 37 Paddy Power IRC GBR 6:34.7 RACE
16 Iain Stuart 31 Bristol Ariel RC GBR 6:35.2 RACE
17 Philip Turner 35 Lancaster Fire Station GBR 6:36.3 RACE
18 Chris Mizen 37 Mad Team/Bexhill RC GBR 6:37.4 RACE
19 Scott Penning 30 AUS 6:37.5 RACE
20 Tim Wright 36 Ballarat VI AUS 6:38.5 IND
21 Yann Laurent 37 Hennebont Av FRA 6:39.7 RACE
22 Zack DePace 32 Springfield MA USA 6:39.9 RACE

Well, the best American lwt 30s 2K this last year was 6:39.9.

As a complete novice, not even knowing how to row, I pulled a lightweight 6:28 when I was just shy of 53.

Now that I know how to row, this fall, at just shy of 60, I think I will pull sub-6:20.

ranger

[ausrwr]

You're six years older, and you're slower. Keep dreaming.

[ranger]

act of the matter: 10 years of intense erg training makes you a great erger... not a great sculler.

I am not sure why you keep overlooking my OTW rowing.

I have been rowing OTW for seven years.

As with other summers over the last seven years, this morning I did an hour on the erg, an hour on my bike, and an hour OTW.

Nice balance of activities.

As I thought, the Fluid is just _waaaay_ faster than the Peinert.

This morning, I was hitting all of paces and rates--right on:

2:10 @ 23 spm
2:08 @ 24 spm
2:06 @ 25 spm
2:04 @ 26 spm
2:02 @ 27 spm

etc.

So.

It appears that my rowing is just as good as yours.

Whaddya know?

I wonder how good mine will be when I really learn to row?



In terms of racing, that means that the only issue is rate.

Given that our stroking is the same, how high can you lift the rate over 1K, 5K, etc.?

How high can I?

ranger

[mikvan52]

10 years of intense erg training makes you a great erger... not a great sculler.

Sure.

But you are already a great sculler.

So what now?

IMHO, by avoiding the erg, you avoid your major weakness and therefore sell your future as a sculler down the river.

If I were you, I would get on the erg every morning before you go out OTW and do an hour or two of 1:45 @ 25 spm (12 SPI).

Never take a bad stroke.

12 SPI--over and over.

Doesn't matter how you do it.

Just do it.

5K, 1:45 @ 25 spm, might be a modest first goal.

Then move on from there--6K, 30min, 10K, 20K, etc.

I appreciate the intent of what you think is good advice.
The fact of the matter is that with age we all (except you ) slow down. I, also, am fully trained. Any advances I can make in speed will have to be with form that must be developed primarily on the water. Machines cannot replicate the feel of a boat.
Additionally, the hours spent on the water are more enjoyable.

Once I'm done with an hour to an an hour an a half workout I have physical labor to do on our farm an I often get so tired I can barely stand up at the end of these summer days. Conclusion: No room for erging unless I skip something else.

Winter brings the seasonal "joy" of sticking to the erg. I now stay on slides as much as possible. You might want to experiment with staying predominantly on slides too if you wish to excel in your pursuit of head racing in the 1x.

Ah, yes, "where and when" should we erg?

[mikvan52]

act of the matter: 10 years of intense erg training makes you a great erger... not a great sculler.

I am not sure why you keep overlooking my OTW rowing.


This morning, I was hitting all of paces and rates--right on:

2:10 @ 23 spm
2:08 @ 24 spm
2:06 @ 25 spm
2:04 @ 26 spm
2:02 @ 27 spm



So.

It appears that my rowing is just as good as yours.

No distances mentioned in the above.
How long did you sustain these rates and paces.

Here's a quote from my blog for comparison:

For similar workouts this season:
See
July 3rd
June 12th (1:49 av 1st set; 1:51 av 2nd set)
May12

Objective : scull at race rate; started a few in the 1st set from a standstill w/3 strokes from prior 20 showing on timer; go hard

✖I’m getting better with what I did today
♨

2000m warm up heading up stream
.
23rd July 10:37 am after body work w/Kevin
.
♺...set #1
♳ (no accurate pace) 288 meters / 2:17 rest
♴ 1:44 / 28.5 spm / 301m / 2:04 r
♵ 1:41 / 31.0 spm / 287m / 2:27 r
♶ 1:40 / 30.5 spm / 290m / 1:22 r
♷ 1:43 / 29.0 spm / 298m / 1:16 r
♸ 1:44 / 30.0 spm / 289m / 1:24 r
.
10' paddle between sets (2:48 pace / 1840 m ) then spin and head home
.
second set (all on the fly) not concerned about maxing out or rating it up
.
♺...set #2
♳ 1-49 / 24.0 spm / 336m / 1:12 r
♴ 1:47 / 25.5 spm / 326m / 1:14 r
♵ 1:46 / 27.0 spm / 317m / 1:14 r
♶ 1:44 / 28.5 spm / 303m / 1:14 r
♷ 1:43 / 29.0 spm / 298m / 1:22 r
♸ 1:42 / 31.0 spm / 286m / 1:19 r
.
10' paddle (cool down w/drills) 15 spm /1662 m
.
Comment:Almost didn't do the 2nd set (thinking about the DSR this coming Sunday)
darn good avg's
1st 5 30's: 1:42.4 @ 29 spm with longer rests than 2nd set (took time to stop the boat) pleased w/boat speed for a simulated strokes 4-33 of a "race".
2nd 6 30's: 1:45.1 @ 27.5 spm (much more comfortable)

It seems I'm a little faster than you?... What do you think?