Pete Plan Autumn 2015

[G-dub]

I've kicked myself out, Bob. I wasn't cutting it

[Galeere]

I know I've been kicked out of the PP thread but I had a thought that might resonate at some point to someone that may bump into a motivational and or physical wall. I have done some interval sessions lately that have been less in terms of quantity than the standard but possibly more in terms of quality. Like I did a 6 x 500 and a 4 x 500 and plan on this week doing a 4 x 800 (instead of 1K). What I noticed was that it changed my perspective a little and I felt more compelled to hit it harder than I was with the standard number, for obvious reasons of them being less marathon-like and since I really didn't know what pace was correct - i just knew it needed to be faster. What was nice was each interval was crisp and the splits are helping my ego. Prior to, it seemed like I was only focused on how many more of these dang things I had to do yet. I think I can now take that feeling into the next round and add 1 or two more each time until I get back to the standard numbers, rather than slogging it out with the standard numbers and being slower, which hurts the ego a little. So next time do 6 x 500 then back to 8. And after 4 X 800 do 4 x 900 and then 1K. Maybe it will unstick the progress that had stalled.

Good advice there. I personally believe that the PP is good for two, maybe three cycles. It is too taxing and too focused on the hard distance/AT-range-type of workout to be sustainable for us amateurs. And even the professionals do more work in the aerobic/steady state range than provided by the PP.

[gregsmith01748]

Dub: I think you are seeing the primary drawback of the Pete Plan (or for that matter the WP). Any plan that is essentially a mixed distance, progressive overload plan is likely to result in some kind of a plateau. At that point, trying to continue to eeek out faster splits on the sessions becomes more and more difficult, intimidating and demotivating.

I came to the conclusion that doing some kind of block periodization was the way to take the next step. At this point, it's just an experiment, but I was getting pretty fed up with bashing my head against negative splits and faster lasts. I think your idea of trading reps for intensity is a good idea. Bottom line is that making careful changes in approach and measuring progress is probably the only reliable way to make progress long term.

In my current scheme, I just entered my final phase, a sprint and power block, so I'll be doing some of the classic PP sessions. Today was the first 4x1K that I've done in months and months. I set a pace target of 1:44 to play it a little safe, and go for a negative split. I dug pretty deep on the last rep.



The plan calls for 6x750 on Thursday and 8x 500 on Saturday. This will be fun.

P.S. I used Painsled and uploaded the tcx files to Strava. Works great!.

Here's my 4x1K: https://www.strava.com/activities/473727536

[Galeere]

Good to see that Greg is on the same page here. I will finish the PP-cycle next week but probably won´t stick with it either. Will rather continue with long steady rows and some hard and fast short ones for strength (like Glenns 4x500 or something similar) and with the AT-rows reduced to once a week (instead of 2 per week). BTW: Nice 4x1k Greg!

[G-dub]

Nice session, Greg. Always good when you post your thoughts.

Another thing that is changing my mood and feel for the work is doing low rate (20-22) with power (such as it is for me) in long intervals. This has really helped my stroke and output. Granted, I haven't been at this phase of thinking and doing long, but it sure is better now than it was a few weeks ago. Jamming on those foot plates, getting into a rhythm and trying for long strokes just feels good after awhile and I don't get caught up with pace comparisons (like, oh darn, this means my 5K is for shizzle).

BTW Greg, I look forward to seeing the published version of the Greg Plan! Maybe we will start a group thread on that after the races are over

[ericallenboyd]

w3d4 round 2, 10k in 46:00 felt pretty good but still pretty uncomfortable towards the end of the row on the sit bones. I guess it is something that I am just going to have to deal with. good thing though I am only 2,500 from 1million meters.

[Bob S.]

Good advice there. I personally believe that the PP is good for two, maybe three cycles. It is too taxing and too focused on the hard distance/AT-range-type of workout to be sustainable for us amateurs. And even the professionals do more work in the aerobic/steady state range than provided by the PP.

That's exactly how I have used it in the past. I would start at the beginning of Fall with the IP and at the end of the year do 2-3 cycles of the PP as a tune up for the races, followed by a bit of tapering. For the last 3 or 4 years I have had to drop both the IP and PP. Nowadays, I need too much recovery time to make practical use of either plan. Last year was a bit weird. I was trying to complete a mess of time trials, starting on the 9th of January and doing them every week or so alternating with 40' or so steady state pieces. The sprints had to be done all at once at the trials - in a 5 day period at the end of January and a 4 day period at the end of February. For the most part, it was 2, sometimes 3 workouts a week for the first 3 months of the year.

[bisqeet]

Yeh. I find more and more that my training is drifting off the Pp and trending into a more volume low intensity work... 6/7 training sessions 90 minutes.
Nearly all of the training is in ut2/1, with usually one hard session a week CTC/ 5k /10k/Hm or a few sprints.

It only takes a few weeks specific hard training to gain speed, but far longer to establish and improve the aerobic base.

As I'm not doing any competitions or racing, faster sprints didn't seem as important...
To be honnest - i'm not sure I would have had the same "gains" in some of the middle distances as if i would have kept to a strict PP.
- I think the PP was mainly 30-40k 7 week. I usually average 100km+
I did like the variation and dynamic and will no doubt return to it just for competition time.

I managed to achieve all my "targets" for 2015, so I need some new ones for 2016

[mdpfirrman]

Just by reading the comments I do pick up a lot. Thanks all. I'm leaning toward (at least for now) continuing on with PP until I can't do it any longer (with the modification of no weekend work on the rower). I'm doing five days a week and modified the fifth last week for a longer timed event. I was doing 5K all out. Last week, I concentrated more on the type of row (at least I think) that Henry alluded to earlier in the thread a few weeks ago. Slower, longer distance but at a higher rate that the SS rows. Like a 10K @ 22 to 24 SPM. For me, I held around a 2:05 and that was incredibly challenging especially at that slow of stroke rate. Then having the two days off after helps recover from the strenuous week.

My weekly averages with five days have been around 45K or so. I'm going to start building up the steady state days a bit too, so I foresee doing around 60K or so per week when all is said and done in five days. Once I reach that goal I'll reaccess.

[G-dub]

If you are making progress, having fun and feeling good, it's all good!

[jackarabit]

Fish is on week 10 of 26 of Pete BeginHere. I encouraged a new member who is starting PB to sign on and give Fish some company online. I can't do the sharp end of PP right now and am contemplating doing mostly middle distance (5-15k) at whatever pace I can manage. I may jump onboard for a PB&J (the J for Jack not jelly) pick 'n choose version of Pete Beginner as I never got beyond week 8. Those pursuing PB could extend the life of the thread beyond the 9-12 wk. average service life of PP and if some were to segue into PP, Mike and Eric might enjoy doing the mentoring that falls to the lot of the "old boys." Good reasons to keep the lights on!

[G-dub]

Does that mean I can stay as long as I do 1-2 interval sessions a week that sort of resemble PP?

[mdpfirrman]

Did the waterfall today. I'm back in form again with another positive split time, but not as bad today so I'm happy. Target was 1:58.6. I did the first one a bit too fast but not over the top fast (around a 1:58.3) and then the last two were around 1:59.8 or so (both were the same time). Average probably a hair over 1:59 and HR steadily climbed. It's the first time that I've gone over 175 on the HR and still had a little left in me. Most of the interval was over 175 HR. I even had enough in my to keep it under 2:00 on the last 300m or so. I'm OK with that.

Here's the exact numbers (was too lazy to get my phone at first)

3000 / 1:58.2 / 27 / 171 HR
2500 / 1:59.8 / 26 / 178 HR
2000 / 1:59.8 / 26 / 181 HR

Avg 1:59.2 / 26

[G-dub]

Good one Mike. I think the reason I give you a hard time about positive splitting is that I would probably handle down when I saw it going sideways and you keep on keeping on. Very impressive, I think.

I had a cross training day. 30 minutes run and 30 minutes bike. Some push ups.

[jackarabit]

G-dub writes:

Does that mean I can stay as long as I do 1-2 interval sessions a week that sort of resemble PP?

I don't dispute your standing as founder and sole proprietor of Pete's House of Pain & Pontification, Dub. PP as one component of a larger perodized training scheme doesn't trouble me in the least. No question it has limitations as a standalone method. But which of us wasn't enthusiastic about seeing what the sharp end of erg training felt like--or if it was even possible to train like--if not run with, the big dogs? I believe the product will continue to have a market if we don't dynamite the store. Your thread Bro, you make the call. I should be moving on myself. I feel like an alumnus of a pretty damn good school.