Ranger's training thread

[Flipper21]

off-topic

[ranger]

off-topic

[Byron Drachman]

off-topic (though it pains me to do it to you Byron!)

[ranger]

The problem is that is only one aspect of training and an overemphasis on high spi can lead to a stroke that can be maintained for only a short time.

I have done 2K, 32 spm @ 12 SPI, albeit at high drag, unprepared, and still struggling with technique.

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.).

And I am now preparing in an orderly way to race.

The first step in this race preparation is a FM, 1:48 @ 22 spm (12.5 SPI), 119 df., 4.2-to-1 ratio.

A FM takes two and half hours to complete.

Two and a half hours is not a short time.

ranger

[mikvan52]

The problem is that is only one aspect of training and an overemphasis on high spi can lead to a stroke that can be maintained for only a short time.

I have done 2K, 32 spm @ 12 SPI, albeit at high drag, unprepared, and still struggling with technique.

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.). Note: I respond indeed not!

And I am now preparing in an orderly way to race.

The first step in this race preparation is a FM, 1:48 @ 22 spm (12.5 SPI), 119 df., 4.2-to-1 ratio.

A FM takes two and half hours to complete.

Two and a half hours is not a short time.

ranger

Oh Richard?

Is it orderly to set up a plan for sessions and then not do them?
I think you should know from the last three days of exchanges... exactly what I'm talking about.

Your training, that you promised to show us includes daily rowing at watts/stroke ratio of at least 12.5 and was to be 20k in duration.
IN ITS PLACE
All you have shown is 300 (+/-) meters with only one stroke at this absurd marker.

60 year old 175 lb-ers are incapable of sustaining a watts/stroke rate quotient you claim and have never shown such capability. Indeed it is ludicrous to say " all my rowing is done at (below anaerobic threshold)" while maintaining this ratio.

I welcome your willingness to be a guinea pig on the forefront of insanity but there comes a time when you should show what you are claiming.

Design any training workout of your own invention. Row it on your erg. The PM4 will record it. Post it here in all its splendor.
How about: 10x 2k/(any reasonably fixed rest) ?? 1-3 min.... certainly not one stroke out of every 300-400m....
You said you are currently able to achieve this. It corresponds to all the claims about your daily sessions... sessions which you have said often stretch to 40k.

Or, are 2k intervals too long?... go to 1k then !

I think you may be faking just to get attention by claiming outlandish training achievements. Am I right?
Why lie? It does a disservice to the erg training community...

[mikvan52]

Let me help:

In the following I am only moderately easing the training you prescribed for both of us last Thursday:

How about first establishing how long it takes to get to UT1 while remembering that the work interval may not be considered "short".
What is the reasonable interval in your view? 750m?... 1000m? ... 1500m?

I suppose it cannot be a full 2k or you would already have published a success story. (?)

Now, on to the rest interval... Can't be too long.. 1' ? 2' ? How about 90 seconds?

Ok.
Let's put it all together.


My suggestion:

1610m (an ample mile) = work
90 seconds. = rest................. what... 6' on/ 1:30 off ...not hard
a mile on/ a minute & a half off.... piece-o' - cake, wouldn't you say
times 12 would make roughly 20k = your "daily routine" plain vanilla workout...

Conclusion:
an easy ranger training demo: accessible on the PM4 by the *OPTIONS *MEMORY *+ (keying sequence)

*NEW WORKOUT
12x1610m/1:30r at 23 spm below AT.. this is just a tad easier than the old one and should be reasonable from the standpoint of "working up to" your 2 1/2 hours non-stop of doing the same .

So, here we go
Mr. Steamroller! Strap on the Suunto. Go directly to the erg. "Time waits for no man" (especially an aging one)

[ranger]

off-topic

[ranger]

off-topic

[ranger]

60 year old 175 lb-ers are incapable of sustaining a watts/stroke rate quotient you claim and have never shown such capability

I have done a 2K (6:29.7), 12 SPI @ 32 spm, albeit at high drag, unprepared, and still struggling with technique.

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.) and I am now preparing to race.

At low drag (119 df.), my drive time is briefer (only .5 seconds), my ratios are higher (at 22 spm, 4.2-to-1, at 32 spm, 3-to-1)), and my leveraging is more efficient (i.e., with more length, and with this length focussed primarily on the legs, with relaxed shoulders and abs at the catch and relaxed shoulders during the swing of my back in the middle of the drive).

In my sessions, I take about 1500 strokes a day, covering 20K, at 12 SPI - 13 SPI.

As time goes on, I will push that up to 3360 strokes, covering 42K.

As I do, my rowing at 22 spm will become more and more continuous, as it is now.

The goal is a FM, 1:48 @ 22 spm (12.5 SPI).

12.5 MPS

ranger

[aharmer]

Since ranger is so committed to showing workouts and screenshots, I have an idea for another one. He knows that he can complete a FM at "x" heart rate (sorry I forget the exact numbers, there's so much BS thrown around). How about setting the PM for 60 minutes and rowing at your FM heart rate the entire time. Would be interesting to see the average pace of the workout. I'm only guessing but am skeptical of it being 1:48 or better.

[ranger]

off-topic

[mikvan52]

In my sessions, I take about 1500 strokes a day, covering 20K, at 12 SPI - 13 SPI.

Congratulations.
Show it.... in between "pulling on deadbeats"

{edit} I'm sorry.. downbeats.. my bad!

[mikvan52]

I will push that up to 3360 strokes, covering 42K.

AS YOUR training combines predictions with regular & steady progress, let me make the following interim assessment of your watts/stroke rate quotient of "12-13":

You introduced this type of training (what?) 5 years ago and so far all you've verified with the PM4 is one stroke as a lightweight. (We remember that the quotient goes to 15-16 if you are a hwt in the ranger play book)

Assuming regular and steady progress: 1 stroke in 5 years is equivalent to (5x3360 =) sixteen thousand eight hundred years .
Plus your age (60)....

Wow! You'll be 16,860 years old when you achieve this goal!

Impressive.

Kirk (and Spock) will be pleased and will forever look up to you!


I think I'll still be around when you show strokes #s two and three... but not #250, unless you decrease your rate to 6 spm...

Perhaps you'd like to add other features to your training?

Why did you ignore the two good demo suggestions you were offered this morning?
Is 12x1610m/1:30 rests below AT too tough also? Disturbing. Are you ill? Injured? Social obligations? Hemorrhoids?

If you're ok physically and mentally ; come up with an alternative then!

Do you want me to do the workout to show you what you say you do anyway/
Why are you still hiding your training?
I am confused.

[ranger]

You introduced this type of training (what?) 5 years ago and so far all you've verified with the PM4 is one stroke as a lightweight

No, not at all.

Rowing at high drag, I did 1Kr24 @ 1:38 and 500r30 @ 30 spm, which are 16 SPI, not to mention a 6:29.7 2K, pulling 12 SPI @ 32 spm.

That demonstrated that I now understand and command proper leverage and timing, that I now understand and command an effective stroke.

What I was missing was efficiency, which I added after BIRC this year--relaxing my shoulders and abs at the catch, and keeping my shoulders relaxed during the middle of the stroke when I engage my abs, lengthening the slide, and lowering the drag to 119 df.

These changes have brought _more_ stroking power, enormous increases in my ratios by shortening my drive time, and much more muscular efficiency. My core and arms no longer get as tired rowing with a high stroking power over long distances.

Given my little lightweight legs, pulling along at 22 spm and 1:48 at 119 df., I am now in a 4.2-to-1 ratio.

I get to rest almost two seconds between drives.

Now, I am just habituating myself to this new effectiveness and efficiency, pushing my familiarity and endurance with it to the max until it is second nature.

ranger

[mikvan52]

You introduced this type of training (what?) 5 years ago and so far all you've verified with the PM4 is one stroke as a lightweight

No, not at all.

Rowing at high drag, I did 1Kr24 @ 1:38 and 500r30 @ 30 spm, which are 16 SPI, not to mention a 6:29.7 2K, pulling 12 SPI @ 32 spm.

Excuse me> but >>> you didn't post any stroke rate with that performance and that was long ago...
Re-enact it for us at 1:46... 23 spm ... below AT (you'll have to wear the Suunto you now own (and didn't own when you supposedly did that 500...

that could be interval #1... Let's see ... 19 more of these and you'll have the 20k...

This is not an above AT issue we're talking about.

You said (was it Thursday) "I will try to get one of these done this weekend"
Yesterday you said you hadn't tried yet.
Why didn't you try?