Please comment on my technique - video

[jrkob]

However I think for significant increases to your anaerobic threshold you may need to go to higher stroke rates.

Thanks for all the comments iain, well noted, and of course very much appreciated.
I've done a little test yesterday: 3x500m/2minR.
Pace 2:15 @26spm. For me, this is very hard work.
I had programmed my PM4 for 2x500 but added a third one after that as I felt I could do it.
Seems going beyond 24spm is possible after all.
I'll keep testing.

[jrkob]

I have noticed that the left side of my body, more specifically ankle, knee and lower back - has more "sensation" after rowing than the right side. I don't want to call it "ache" because it's not really hurting. But I feel things are going on in those places.

I am right handed. Does this have anything to do ?

I'm asking because I think I have read people here alluding to "not rowing straight" so just asking. This is something on my mind at all time, trying to row symetrically. But just because I try, doesn't mean I succeed.

Or I just ignore it if it's normal ?

[iain]

I asked the same question some time ago and didn't get much response. Not sure about handedness. In my case this is complicated by learning to row sweep stroke side, so power passes through outer (left) hand and more drive through my left foot. On the erg I notice that the sweat accumulates behind me to the right (I use a tied sweatband that has a rubber ridge so that the sweat goes down the tied "tail" onto my back). So I am pulling to the right at the leanback. Doesn't seem efficient to me and the uneven load on my spine might aggravate the spinal stiffness issues I suffer from periodically.

[Dangerscouse]

I'm not sure what the issue is, and the only thing I have that is similar is that I get slightly worse blisters on my right hand (I'm left handed) so I'm not sure if that's related. I jump off my right foot, but I'm left footed, so my right leg is quite strong after playing a lot of basketball years ago.

[Sakly]

I'm not sure what the issue is, and the only thing I have that is similar is that I get slightly worse blisters on my right hand (I'm left handed)

Same for me, but vice versa as I'm right handed.

At my recent HM PB attempt I felt some similar issues, but very slightly. If the power is not applied very even, it can sum up over several 100s or even thousands of movements.
On slower rows up to two hours I feel nothing like this, but during the HM PB it was popping up a bit, as the applied power was much higher than in a typical steady state.

[jrkob]

I'm not sure what the issue is, and the only thing I have that is similar is that I get slightly worse blisters on my right hand (I'm left handed)

OMG yes I had forgotten to mention that, but same for me, I am right handed and have more blisters on the left side !
So I was thinking... am I pulling harder on the left side ?...

Ok thanks guys so it's not just me. I think may be I will ignore it for now, as this doesn't seem to stop you guys from rowing.

[Dangerscouse]

OMG yes I had forgotten to mention that, but same for me, I am right handed and have more blisters on the left side !
So I was thinking... am I pulling harder on the left side ?...

Ok thanks guys so it's not just me. I think may be I will ignore it for now, as this doesn't seem to stop you guys from rowing.

I've always ignored it as I know that we all have a stronger side, especially if it involves your dominant hand /leg. Maybe just try and keep it in your mind when you row that you want it to be equal pressure, but I know that it's easier said than done when you're relatively new to rowing to concentrate on too many things, as you've not switched onto automatic pilot for quite a few elements that will eventually become second nature to you: much like being a pilot I guess

[jrkob]

Thanks yes indeed applying equal pressure on both side is something I try to keep in mind at all time.

-----------------------------------------

Need some guidance. I post here so as to not to clog the other BPP thread with my newbie questions.

Yesterday was Week 4 Session 1: 6.5K at the same pace as Session 1 of the previous Weeks (5K, 5.5K and 6K). In my case, I target 2:30.
In terms of difficulty, I'd say it was an 8/10. I could have probably done another 500m I think. But see the below results, it says average HR 162, which is 92.5% of my MaxHR (175). I was advised before to perhaps slow down a bit. For example, winniewiser in the other thread says he's doing those at 75-80%.

I don't have an issue slowing down the pace, of course. But if I do that, am I not going to lose some of the intended benefits ? I'm not worried about doing some LSS rows, as I was mentionning in other posts they are beneficial to my blood pressure so I reserve a day or 2 for those in the week anyway. I think the broader issue is that I'm not sure "how" the BPP is supposed to work. I do it because it seems to be popular.
Basically, what is the harm of doing it at 92.5% MaxHR ? I believe that Dom82 seems to be doing it in between winniewiser and myself roughly, I think (in the low 150s HR)..

I don't know if it's important but I'll mention it just in case: I don't have sore muscles after rowing. I do notice that things are going on in my arms, legs and knees, but if anything... they feel a lot better than prior trying to improve my rowing. For example, last year I didn't know what I was doing, had sore calves after rowing everytime, and have to take multiple days off afterwards. After I got some advice here, I can tell I am making progress, and without destroying anything so far. In fact, I mention this because I thought I read/watched somewhere that "if it doesn't hurt, you're not doing it right", but I don't know if that's true, and I forgot where I saw this.

* the below row, Week 4 Session 1 was preceeded by 10 minutes warmup.

[iain]

Last first: the 80's mantra of "no pain no gain" has been shown to be wrong. Yes there needs to be hard work to increase your threshold, but longer rows are to provide a stimulus to continue peripheral adaptions (increased capilliarisation of the muscles and increasing the mitochondria in your muscles). This does not require it to hurt! The BPP was designed as a full program for people coming from a low base (basically those that are unable initially to do the regular 10k UT1 rows required by the full PP as recovery rows). The increasing longer rows are supposed to be the SS rows with the increases from 5 - 10k being the build to leave the rower at the point where they can do the full PP by the end. As a result, these should not be requiring a high HR! For the full PP, Pete says that you should feel that you could row twice the distance if you had to, so believing another 500 would be your maximum is a sign you are working too hard. Before I suggested perhaps holding the pace while you work through the plan. This was on the assumption that you were at a steep part of the improvement curve and that you HR would rapidly decrease for rowing at the same pace. Clearly you are more highly trained than I assumed and so you should now slow down. I mention this as I think that was Pete's intention for the target rowers and so the intensity at constant pace would reduce to the necessary SS pace. The first few weeks intervals are at a modest pace and so initially doing the SS a little harder shouldn't compromise your ability to do the intervals. But as it proceeds this will become less true!

The 2:45 at 17SPM I suggested was a suggested intensity for these rows. The 4 x 10min format was just to enable you to concentrate on form and allow you to complete it if you found that this was a bit too high an intensity for a SS row. from the HR data, I think this should be achievable for 6.5k SS, so I think you should give this a try. It should definitely be easier than the current 2:30 pace (75% of the power required!).

[iain]

Please forgive double post, too slow to edit!

2 things I didn't cover in the above ramble:

1) I am a little uncertain on what impact a "recovery" session should have on us. Eddie Fletcher seemed to believe that the fatigue you are trying to minimise from SS sessions is cardiac and I believe he was involved in the Garmin training App and did work on using HRV to determine fatigue. This appears to dovetail wit traditional rower training approaches involving lots of low rate rows. Lowering the rating reduces the cardiac fatigue and constant effort ("RPE") (although, of course, you can compensate by upping the work per stroke), but leads to some increase in work per stroke and greater muscular fatigue. Personally I find fatigue results in lower work per stroke at constant RPE. So I am muscularly fatigued and this impacts the pace I can maintain (rating increases to reach the same pace increases RPE) and hence the quality of subsequent interval sessions. So for me at least, I need to reduce muscular fatigue as well.

2) I appreciate that you want to do SS rows at UT2 type pace for your overall health. Personally I think that you could substitute some of the continuous rows from the BPP for longer slower sessions so long as you try and maintain good quality strokes (in practice low rating). Alternatively you could substitute some of the optional sessions, but you do need at least one day off a week to allow your body to improve. Except for the fittest of us (and then mainly the young fit ones) long SS does take some toll even at UT2 HRs.

[nick rockliff]

Please forgive double post, too slow to edit!

2 things I didn't cover in the above ramble:

1) I am a little uncertain on what impact a "recovery" session should have on us. Eddie Fletcher seemed to believe that the fatigue you are trying to minimise from SS sessions is cardiac and I believe he was involved in the Garmin training App and did work on using HRV to determine fatigue. This appears to dovetail wit traditional rower training approaches involving lots of low rate rows. Lowering the rating reduces the cardiac fatigue and constant effort ("RPE") (although, of course, you can compensate by upping the work per stroke), but leads to some increase in work per stroke and greater muscular fatigue. Personally I find fatigue results in lower work per stroke at constant RPE. So I am muscularly fatigued and this impacts the pace I can maintain (rating increases to reach the same pace increases RPE) and hence the quality of subsequent interval sessions. So for me at least, I need to reduce muscular fatigue as well.

2) I appreciate that you want to do SS rows at UT2 type pace for your overall health. Personally I think that you could substitute some of the continuous rows from the BPP for longer slower sessions so long as you try and maintain good quality strokes (in practice low rating). Alternatively you could substitute some of the optional sessions, but you do need at least one day off a week to allow your body to improve. Except for the fittest of us (and then mainly the young fit ones) long SS does take some toll even at UT2 HRs.

Eddie used to use Suunto watches and monitor HRV from memory.

[dabatey]

forgive me if this may have been mentioned in one of your threads already, but just in case it hasn't.

Where are you taking your max heart rate from?

If it's from one of the readily accessible equations online such as 220-age and other slightly more refined one's it's likely to be wrong. From what I've seen looking at strava HR traces, most folks tend to be higher than equations produce especially for lighter build folks. There are multiple threads on this forum you can access discussing max heart rate if need be.

Eg My max HR would be 170 according to 220-age, but I've registered 182 rowing and 184 cycling.

[jrkob]

Thanks guys (had to be away since your responses).

For the full PP, Pete says that you should feel that you could row twice the distance if you had to
[...]
The 2:45 at 17SPM I suggested was a suggested intensity for these rows. [...]from the HR data, I think this should be achievable for 6.5k SS, so I think you should give this a try.

Ok well noted, let me try this tomorrow morning then. I see from another post of yours that you're thinking of 80%HRR for these BPP LSS, which in my case would be 150. Will revert.

Personally I think that you could substitute some of the continuous rows from the BPP for longer slower sessions so long as you try and maintain good quality strokes (in practice low rating).

I was thinking of something along those lines too. Merge both the BPP and my longer, slower rows that I'm used to.
The LSS of the BPP are getting longer anyway so this makes sense.
But what I was thinking instead, is dropping my longer, slower rows and keeping the LSS of the BPP: lately I have done less of my longer slower rows than before (since I need time for the BPP), and my blood pressure hasn't increased. In fact, it is now lower than ever. As you know, what keeps my BP down will always have priority over anything else. But if the BPP manages that somehow, then all the better. I think.

forgive me if this may have been mentioned in one of your threads already, but just in case it hasn't.

Where are you taking your max heart rate from?

Yes so we had indeed discussed this subject in another of my threads.
I'm not using any of these age based formulas.

My last - proper - treadmill test at the doctor was done in 2019 (my clinic here wouldn't do it during the covid years). They use the Bruce protocole so I believe this to be reliable. MaxHR back then was 182, which I discounted to say 175 to account for the lack of gravity fighting and a few other places where I read that normally rowing MaxHR should be a bit lower than when running. Also, my - seen - MaxHR while rowing during my 500m interval as an all out effort was 174. So, 175 is probably about right, I would think.

I'm going for my annual checkup in 2 weeks and it will include the Bruce treadmill test so I will have an update of my running MaxHR.

If you have a better idea to refine my rowing MaxHR, I am open to suggestions.

I remember in the other thread that jamesg had mentionned that if my rowing MaxHR is lower than my running MaxHR, I'm not rowing right.
I acknowledge that my rowing technique is indeed, certainly not optimal.

[p_b82]

I'm going for my annual checkup in 2 weeks and it will include the Bruce treadmill test so I will have an update of my running MaxHR.

If you have a better idea to refine my rowing MaxHR, I am open to suggestions.

I remember in the other thread that jamesg had mentionned that if my rowing MaxHR is lower than my running MaxHR, I'm not rowing right.
I acknowledge that my rowing technique is indeed, certainly not optimal.

I've seen max HR doing longer continuous pieces - anything 5k up to an hour.

for me it was achieved as per this entry:
https://log.concept2.com/profile/1627958/log/69530434 (5k pb at the time)
this one was just one bpm lower
https://log.concept2.com/profile/1627958/log/68778959 (1hr - just a hard session)
and this one lower still
https://log.concept2.com/profile/1627958/log/69238544 (6k pb - still my pb, but I know I can beat it)

In each of them, the aim was a 95% max effort with a sprint into anaerobic zone to finish. Pace being controlled by the distance attempted.

I only saw 183bpm on my 2k attempt... but that left me in a much worse state at the end.

[jrkob]

@p_b82, thanks, what's your weight roughly ?