Help me go sub-7:00 for the 2k

[MarkEg]

Carl Watts writes:



Look up the Pete Plan Lunch Hour blog. I great reference for intervals. I think he says (and I'm going off of memory here) do your 2000 x 4 at 5K PB pace plus one second if I'm not mistaken. He also tells you to (if you have it in you) push the last interval harder.

https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/the-pete-plan/

Edit - looked it up because my memory is terrible. 2000 x 4 should be done at 5K PB pace plus 1/2 second. So my PB 5K pace is like 1:57.5, so my 2000 X 4 would be done at 1:58.0.

many thanks -- sounds horrible!

[Anth_F]

Got a sweat on just thinking about that

[jackarabit]

In the Q&A following the Wordpress "Lunchtime" 2K plan, the following is exactly what Marston says about relational pace targets [emphasis mine]:

Q: I know everyone is different, but I still want to know what are good times for each of the interval sessions!


A: Ok, but these are neither targets for the first time you try a session, or even for the longer term.

8 x 500m = 3seconds faster than 2k pb pace (2k – 3)

Speed pyramid = 2k pb pace (2k)h

4 x 1000m = 1second slower than 2k pb pace (2k + 1)

5 x 1500m = 5k pb pace (5k)

4 x 2000m = Half a second slower than 5k pb pace (5k + 0.5)

3k, 2.5k, 2k = 1second slower than 5k pb pace (5k + 1)

Most rowers will find their aggregate performance in accord with most or all of these relational paces after a few 3 wk cycles of Pete 2k. Not surprising as taken together, they attest only the presence or deficit of a desirable balance of speed and aerobic endurance for the range of tasks attempted. Even slow old farts such as myself achieve this aggregate pace consistency, from which I conclude that it isn't an uncommon result of concentrated and directed training. Challenging certainly, subjectively painful, but hardly "horrific."

[G-dub]

Question for the panel:
I cannot finish a 5K these days. I can only get to 10-12 minutes. Been like this for awhile. I ask, in the context of wanting to snag last few seconds off 2K and thus fitting into this thread, should I:
1: train the 5k for a while, which will hopefully help my stamina/lactate tolerance,
2: do what I've been doing which is some long intervals above 5K pace and lower rate, plus some speed plus SS and not worry about the 5, which would be fine with me!
3: just do steady state and speed- working the two ends of the spectrum.
4: just do steady - which doesn't seem right to me.

I am not needing to test 2 for awhile. I usually do a race in February and have been able to PB twice at it. But if things started coming together, I would get it out of the way - this 7:00 thing has been a lot to carry around for a couple of years.

[MarkEg]

Question for the panel:
I cannot finish a 5K these days. I can only get to 10-12 minutes. Been like this for awhile. I ask, in the context of wanting to snag last few seconds off 2K and thus fitting into this thread, should I:
1: train the 5k for a while, which will hopefully help my stamina/lactate tolerance,
2: do what I've been doing which is some long intervals above 5K pace and lower rate, plus some speed plus SS and not worry about the 5, which would be fine with me!
3: just do steady state and speed- working the two ends of the spectrum.
4: just do steady - which doesn't seem right to me.

I am not needing to test 2 for awhile. I usually do a race in February and have been able to PB twice at it. But if things started coming together, I would get it out of the way - this 7:00 thing has been a lot to carry around for a couple of years.

If i get to 10-12 minutes, that's the point where I know I'll finish. I've had spells like this ( and our times are similar) and I just stayed away from the 5K for a while which may or may not be right. I mostly do 8K + at R20 with a day of 8x500s thrown in here and there. Not very scientific!

[jackarabit]

Screw 5. Test 2.

[G-dub]

Word Jack, I'd only train it if it would get me over the 2 hump.

[Edward4492]

Glenn, we attach some magical powers to round numbers (at least I know I do!). I have a girl right now looking to go sub 8:00. The four minute mile. Three hour marathon. For us...the 7 minute 2k. I got there once......and have never been back. It becomes this big nasty dragon to be slayed. I wish I had the answers. I'm doing lots of endurance work OTW and just got started with some speed work on the erg. You made a recent comment about doing fast intervals so the body "learns" how to go fast as a skill to be developed, not just raw fitness. I couldn't agree more. Maybe we don't need the pure power approach that Shawn uses as he trains for a 500m record. But if you can do (8) x 500m at 1:44 pace (I can't right now) then a 7:00 2k seems do-able. I think the concensus is to build the big base to support the fast interval work necessary. I also like the (4) x 2000m as a great endurance work out.

In the end we're just tweaking the machine.

[jackarabit]

How about forget the round numbers and mainstay workouts, do the quick three day taper with a 1800/no sprint on the second day and surprise the constantly preparing fibers with a full on romp on the fourth? Isn't that what the Jawga bikie was always advocating? Didn't I hear somewheres you can test 2k quarterly without killing yourself?

[aussieluke]

But if you can do (8) x 500m at 1:44 pace (I can't right now) then a 7:00 2k seems do-able.

My last 8 x 500m/2:00r was 1:44.4 and 1:43.2 on the final rep ...but I absolutely died on my last 2k test after 1000m at 1:45 and ended up with a 7:10


Do I need to work on doing that same workout with 1:30 or 1:00 rest?

[hjs]

Question for the panel:
I cannot finish a 5K these days. I can only get to 10-12 minutes. Been like this for awhile. I ask, in the context of wanting to snag last few seconds off 2K and thus fitting into this thread, should I:
1: train the 5k for a while, which will hopefully help my stamina/lactate tolerance,
2: do what I've been doing which is some long intervals above 5K pace and lower rate, plus some speed plus SS and not worry about the 5, which would be fine with me!
3: just do steady state and speed- working the two ends of the spectrum.
4: just do steady - which doesn't seem right to me.

I am not needing to test 2 for awhile. I usually do a race in February and have been able to PB twice at it. But if things started coming together, I would get it out of the way - this 7:00 thing has been a lot to carry around for a couple of years.

Target to sharp? A 5k at max is a very nasty task.
Pacing allow the 4th k to be the slowest.
Be fresh enough, start a next time on a slower target, say 2 seconds.
Wanting something does not mean you also can.

[Sideshow Bob]

so I tested peak power again yesterday and managed to hit 730 watts (1:18 pace) @ 170 DF. Pretty sure I could do a bit better with some training. But is it worth it? Will being able to pull, say, 830 watts or even 1000 make me any faster over 2k?

[G-dub]

But if you can do (8) x 500m at 1:44 pace (I can't right now) then a 7:00 2k seems do-able.

My last 8 x 500m/2:00r was 1:44.4 and 1:43.2 on the final rep ...but I absolutely died on my last 2k test after 1000m at 1:45 and ended up with a 7:10


Do I need to work on doing that same workout with 1:30 or 1:00 rest?

Luke, it is very nasty, but to me the 4 x 1K R5' is the ultimate one to test with. It exposes the realities of that second half better than the 500's to me anyway. On the 500's it's easier to rate higher and blast them out - recognizing that they too suck. I think it probably too depends on your strengths.

[G-dub]

Question for the panel:
I cannot finish a 5K these days. I can only get to 10-12 minutes. Been like this for awhile. I ask, in the context of wanting to snag last few seconds off 2K and thus fitting into this thread, should I:
1: train the 5k for a while, which will hopefully help my stamina/lactate tolerance,
2: do what I've been doing which is some long intervals above 5K pace and lower rate, plus some speed plus SS and not worry about the 5, which would be fine with me!
3: just do steady state and speed- working the two ends of the spectrum.
4: just do steady - which doesn't seem right to me.

I am not needing to test 2 for awhile. I usually do a race in February and have been able to PB twice at it. But if things started coming together, I would get it out of the way - this 7:00 thing has been a lot to carry around for a couple of years.

Target to sharp? A 5k at max is a very nasty task.
Pacing allow the 4th k to be the slowest.
Be fresh enough, start a next time on a slower target, say 2 seconds.
Wanting something does not mean you also can.

True. I seem to think I can do a good 5 in the middle of the week, which hasn't worked very well!

[gregsmith01748]

In regards to volume...we know that specificity is important, so there will be some blow back on this. If I did 100k a week steady state on the erg I would be spending 6 hrs and 10 minutes In an aerobic HR zone. Right now I am spending about 4 hrs on the erg a week, an hour and a half on the mountain bike and say an hour to an hour half running per week (it's not always consistent, but this is a typical week). I am not counting weight training, which does have my heart rate up too and would add maybe another half hour or more. So time spent per week for me is something a little more than what 100k would be with my heart rate in an aerobic sort of zone. I should feel all about that, right, in terms of cardio oriented volume? Sometimes more time gets shifted to the erg, but if I put in say 6:30 - 7 hours of aerobic work I should be able to make progress, no?

Totally agree! Doing some (or most) endurance training in a different way is equally effective and probably helps prevent injuries