Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

off-topic

[Byron Drachman]

Strange as it may sound, I believe Ranger can maintain a HR at 172 for an hour. A couple of years ago I finished a marathon with my heart rate in the 170's and I am 13 years older than Ranger. But back to Ranger's training: Ranger would do well to do some training with Mike.

Another suggestion is to take some ideas from Roy. A couple of years ago, the current record holder Roy did some interesting workouts. His advice was to do a sequence of 5 (if I remember right) 2K's, first one at say at a rate 10 seconds slower than your most recent 2K. The ten seconds is chosen arbitrarily. (I think I started out cautiously with 20 seconds for my first one.) Take a fixed amount of rest, then do the next one at a rate one second faster than the first one, next one two seconds faster than the first one, etc. For example if your most recent 2K was at 1:45 you do the first 2K at 1:55, second one at 1:54, third one at 1:53, etc. Because of my advanced years I took 3 minutes rest in between the 2K's and did four instead of five. I don't remember what rest time Roy took. The next time you do the series, each 2K is one second faster than the corresponding one in the first session. So, for example, in the second session you start with 1:54, then do 1:53, etc. As the sessions continue, they obviously get harder. Sooner or later you come to failure. Here is a screen shot of one of my sessions, with the incriminating evidence of my pathetic paces whited out, but you get the idea:

This is the opposite of rowing with breaks and is a remedy for the fly-and-die. It also helps with the fear of the dreaded 2K. Although the suggestion is for Ranger's training, someone else might want to give it a try.

[jlawson58]

Strange as it may sound, I believe Ranger can maintain a HR at 172 for an hour. A couple of years ago I finished a marathon with my heart rate in the 170's and I am 13 years older than Ranger. But back to Ranger's training: Ranger would do well to do some training with Mike.

Another suggestion is to take some ideas from Roy. A couple of years ago, the current record holder Roy did some interesting workouts. His advice was to do a sequence of 5 (if I remember right) 2K's, first one at say at a rate 10 seconds slower than your most recent 2K. The ten seconds is chosen arbitrarily. (I think I started out cautiously with 20 seconds for my first one.) Take a fixed amount of rest, then do the next one at a rate one second faster than the first one, next one two seconds faster than the first one, etc. For example if your most recent 2K was at 1:45 you do the first 2K at 1:55, second one at 1:54, third one at 1:53, etc. Because of my advanced years I took 3 minutes rest in between the 2K's and did four instead of five. I don't remember what rest time Roy took. The next time you do the series, each 2K is one second faster than the corresponding one in the first session. So, for example, in the second session you start with 1:54, then do 1:53, etc. As the sessions continue, they obviously get harder. Sooner or later you come to failure. Here is a screen shot of one of my sessions, with the incriminating evidence of my pathetic paces whited out, but you get the idea:

This is the opposite of rowing with breaks and is a remedy for the fly-and-die. It also helps with the fear of the dreaded 2K. Although the suggestion is for Ranger's training, someone else might want to give it a try.

I agree that it is certainly possible for him to do that although I suspect it is unlikely (did you also notice his use of the term 'I suspect it will be around 172'). He is simply pulling numbers out of thin air. In any event, my reason for asking for that screen shot is to establish a baseline for other measurements. I simply don't believe he can do the paces he claims at a UT1 or 2 HR. I doubt he can even do the paces he claims, but if he can, it isn't at a UT1 HR and the way to prove that is to establish a baseline HR for long TT efforts.

[ranger]

He is simply pulling numbers out of thin air.

No, I'm not.

When I last did a 60min trial, my HR rode right at 172 bpm.

When I do a hard, 2-hour stepping routine, with wattages up above 300 watts, my heart rate rides along at 172 bpm.

When I ride hard on my bike, my heart rate pushes up to 170 bpm.

When I push the end of a distance row or hard anaerobic interval, my heart rate drives up over this level into the 180s bpm. That's AT.

Etc.

My max HR is 190 bpm.

ranger

[snowleopard]

When I last did a 60min trial, my HR rode right at 172 bpm.

In your training, when did you last do a 60 min trial without breaks, what was the stroke rate and what meters did you record?

[ranger]

I doubt he can even do the paces he claims, but if he can, it isn't at a UT1 HR

If I row at 172 bpm for an hour and do, say, 17.3K/1:44 for the 60min, then, sure, the pace is there, big as life, and the HR is UT1.

No other interpretation will be possible.

You can't row for an hour at AT.

My 60min pb is 16.7K/1:48, but that was rowing badly (10 SPI, 28 spm) at max drag (200 df.) in a 2-to-1 ratio.

I am much better than that now.

I now row well (12-13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.).

For 60min, now, I will only need to rate 26 spm to go four seconds per 500m faster than my pb, and I will now hold a 3.6-to-1 ratio.

ranger

[ranger]

When I last did a 60min trial, my HR rode right at 172 bpm.

In your training, when did you last do a 60 min trial without breaks, what was the stroke rate and what meters did you record?

I haven't done a 60min trial in a while, but I have done the stepping routines, biking, intervals, and hard distance rows that I refer to, on and off, continuously, from year to year, and my HR has responded in exactly the same way.

No need to worry about this issue, anyway.

I am doing a 60min trial pretty soon; I am preparing for it now.

When I do this trial, we will see.

When I do my "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" rowing at 26 spm, training for this 60min trial, my HR drives up to 170 bpm, top-end UT1.

My "Steamroller" rowing at 23 spm is done at 155 bpm, middlin' UT1.

145 bpm is top-end UT2.

A top-end UT1 of 1:44 predicts a 6:16 2K.

I now do 1:44 very easily at 26 spm.

That's just 12 SPI.

119 df.

ranger

[ranger]

off-topic

[snowleopard]

off-topic

[ranger]

off-topic

[ranger]

off-topic

[aharmer]

Mike--

It's just a 20K UT1 row, with some short rests.

My major constraint on the session is to row pretty well (12.5 SPI), taking good strokes.

At 1:46, the session is about an hour and twenty minutes.

ranger

This quote is all anyone needs to know about his RWB's. Strange that he insists he no longer rows with breaks. Ranger, your 20k takes you 80 minutes. 40 minutes per 10k, or 2:00 average pace. Hate to break it to you, but I could very easily do this workout and I'm only 6:40 or somewhere in that neighborhood. Without details this means absolutely nothing. You could be pulling 1:46 for long stretches with long breaks or pulling 1:46 for 5 strokes and then a lot of 1:59 strokes. This kind of workout in no way indicates the kind of fitness required to pull off the performances you're talking about.

How about this...if your normal daily workout is 20k of 1:46 with the occasional break to contemplate technique which brings you to an average pace of 2:00 by the end of the session, there's a way to do the exact same thing and show us proof.

Set up your monitor for 2k intervals with 1' rest. Pull all of them at 1:46/r23. This is almost identical to what you've recently said you do on a regular basis, it most certainly wont compromise your current FM preparation. Show this and everybody will not only cut you some slack, they'll probably support your future efforts. You do this workout anyway, failure to show one of them just proves you're a desperate attention seeking fraud.

[ranger]

[removed]

[ranger]

Set up your monitor for 2k intervals with 1' rest. Pull all of them at 1:46/r23.

Ah.

Sure.

That's the plan.

Can you do this workout?

This isn't the end of the plan, though.

This is just daily training.

The plan is to do a FM listening to "Steamroller", rating 23 spm, but perhaps lightening up a bit, to 1:48.

Middlin' UT1 HR (155 bpm).

ranger

[ranger]

off-topic