Got a free model E, time to get back into shape!

whitewaterkayaker · Post by **whitewaterkayaker** » March 28th, 2008, 1:57 pm

Intro a bit long,

Back in 96 I decided to become a fire fighter and my local F.D. had the rep of being the 2nd most difficult in the nation in training due to the drop out rate. At the time I was over weight and in order to be hired had to place in an agility/physical test. Lost 60lbs(from 255-195) in 3 months and placed 5th with over 300 applicants. I decided to become a fire fighter due to helping other and the 1 day on 2 off would be great for the new sport I got into which was white water kayaking. I made the class and was doing great until the 6th week of training. I tore a muscle running and a blood clot formed, DVT. I was having multiple pulmonary emboli and was near death when I was dionosed. It did cost me my career and a life time on blood thinner.

Last year my coumadin level got to low and I re clotted for the first time in 10 years. I Dr. recently recommended a rower to stay in good shape which will help prevent future clotting and the city was kind enough to get it for me. I can not run now and find it challenging to stay in very good shape. I decided to go concept2 due to the large community and on line rowing. I timed my self running years ago and look forward to challenges to come, esp. online.

I am still kayaking in fact I have earned pro freestyle status in a National Championship I dominated a few years back. I have been sponsored by many companies through out the years and still today rep for a great kayak company. I have been instructing for 3 years and will be working this year with Joe Jacobi, US Olympic Gold Medalist and hope to take my kayaking to the next level. My endurance is not the best and hope that will change soon with my erg.

I wanted to get a base with my erg and I rowed 6991m in 30min. I am 34, 6'1" and 220lbs. I want to get out of the 200+club and would love to be in the 190s again. I am working on my technique and do not have the muscle memory yet but does not look that hard. Every stroke and freestyle move in my sport has a different technique so I am good at picking them up. My goal now is build muscle memory and master the technique in erg. Strapless has helped and videos I have seen as well. I am not real happy with rowing shoeless, going to do some engineering to make it more comfortable.

Any advice on technique or erging in general is appreciated.!

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » March 28th, 2008, 2:24 pm

I would most definitely NOT take anyone's advice here on technique.
You will pick it up better on your own.

Check out the messages by Leo Young on the UK forum, a kayaker who was quite good on the erg.

What issues are you having rowing with no shoes?
One thing that helps is to file off the sharp edges of the heel straps, with emery paper or sandpaper.

Yankeerunner · Post by **Yankeerunner** » March 29th, 2008, 7:01 am

John, once again in your attempt to insult the few coaches still willing to come onto the forum and offer advice, you are in danger of harming an innocent bystander. Here we do not even have a situation of a coach ofering unsolicited advice, it is being requested. Please keep your personal issues out of his erging.

whitewaterkayaker, I am not a coach and anything that I'd try to offer of my own experience would only turn into a John v. me playground argument. Here is a good source to start though, complete with a short techingue video:

http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/technique.php

For what it's worth, advice offered by Paul Smith and Xeno Mueller, both coaches and one an Olympic Champion, is well worth heeding (John Rupp's tantrums not withstanding).

Rick

whitewaterkayaker · Post by **whitewaterkayaker** » March 29th, 2008, 8:04 am

Thanks to both of you enjoyed both links and saved them. As for harming an innocent bystandard, I have put more than 25,000m in 4 days on the machine and I am not sore. Never been on or seen a erg before. I will buy Xeno's tape but do think I almost have it right now.
As for the feet rather than shaving the plastic I am going to glue 1/4" minicell foam to it. Minicell is what we use to outfit kayaks and would work great for more padding there. I did notice last night my feet were to low and moved them up. On another post John you were talking about the raised section on the foot pad. Should my toes hang off that or be on it? The only question I have about tectnique is this. In the catch how close should my knees be to each other. If I keep them close it seems my ba11s are always squeesed between my legs.

snowitall · Post by **snowitall** » March 29th, 2008, 11:54 am

whitewaterkayaker, I don't post very often on these forums, but have been here for a few years and read them often. There is some very good advice to be had both here and on the UK C2 forum, which I have found to be extremely useful in my quest to improve on the erg. It does however, concern me deeply (enough to inspire me to post), when I see somebody new to the sport asking John for advice. Please do not confuse his large number of posts with any level of expertise or sensibility when it comes to questions of the erg.

If I can give you only one piece of advice, it would be to take with a large pinch of salt, anything John Rupp has to say. His perspective on things is certainly unique, but I generally invert the meaning of everything he types if I want to get anywhere near a useful answer (if only I could write a macro to do that). When I do occasionally find myself agreeing with something John has said, it always prompts me to go back and check my facts.

I like John a lot, he is very entertaining, and I certainly think this forum would be a much duller place without him, but as someone new to indoor rowing, it would be much safer to follow the advice of somebody else. The UK forum is also a very good place for technical discussions.

Welcome to the forum whitewaterkayaker, and good luck with your goals, keep us posted. If you ever get in to online rowing, I'd be more than happy to row along.

Cheers
Marc

Stefan · Post by **Stefan** » March 29th, 2008, 12:23 pm

whitewaterkayaker wrote: In the catch how close should my knees be to each other. If I keep them close it seems my ba11s are always squeesed between my legs.

Welcome to the forum and to erging, I hope we can get together for online rowing in the future.

I do not know how close the knees SHOULD be but mine stay the same distance (or slightly closer) as when the legs are extended. That works for me. Perhaps you have very large balls

I am a see kayaker in the Gothenburg archipalago by the way. I am in between kayaks at the moment and is researching the market for the perfect model at the moment.

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » March 29th, 2008, 12:44 pm

WhiteWaterKayaker,
I'm glad you are posting here, especially with your expertise of the kayak and your obvious knowledge about training. I would like to hear more of YOUR ideas, as you hopefully continue to post.

whitewaterkayaker wrote:I did notice last night my feet were to low and moved them up. On another post John you were talking about the raised section on the foot pad. Should my toes hang off that or be on it? The only question I have about tectnique is this. In the catch how close should my knees be to each other. If I keep them close it seems my ba11s are always squeesed between my legs.

What I do is keep my toes right at the top of the raised sections. I used to have them off the end, and had some wood pieces attached at the top, for my toes to set on and push off. With the model B previously, my toes were right up to the top, and the angle of the foot plates a bit less.

I keep my knees about shoulder width apart, in a line from my hips to my feet. The balls getting squeezed is a common issue and I don't have a solution for that except trying to avoid some disaster, especially as my thighs are big for my weight. Experimentation with different types of shorts and positions does help.

whitewaterkayaker · Post by **whitewaterkayaker** » March 29th, 2008, 4:57 pm

As for John comment I agree and disagree. I do believe I can feel/ learn the technique much faster than the average noob. One of my favorite moves involves surfing a kayak. You race down the wave, skip the boat out of the water, go vertical in the air, land backwards and surf backwards on to the next move! I will be good in short sprints my surfs last usually 2-3min throw different tricks every few secs. Every move has a set up and technique all the way to finish or get flipped or beat down all timed with the moving water. You learn to feel it but that takes muscle memory and that takes time.

I appreciate every ones advice and I do take ALL of it with a grain of salt. In that there is still so much that can be learned that makes it very worth while. I preach technique and how that puts power to the water. I am a noob to the erg but will figure it out. It's easier to keep good technique when class III+ white water is there to remind you is not so good.

I will be around a while. I believe the Dr. is right about the erg helping prevent future clotting and that is a very scary thing. I will always be on blood thinner at a decent level but if I have more clotting I will have to take more thinner which makes it much more dangerous at the river. My cardio needs much improvement and this thing is great! I also works all the same mussels in kayaking, I guess why I am not sore from it. No pain in my legs or more swelling(I have some daily) and a good cardio, very similar to kayaking. I look forward to beating some peoples PB and thinking I had at least 6 pieces of clot that went to my lungs and that is not a good thing my friends!

Heading out to the Ocoee River to a company party. Camping and kayaking with my wife tomorrow. I hope every one has as good a weekend as I am hoping for!
Eric

michaelb · Post by **michaelb** » March 31st, 2008, 12:19 pm

I think rowing is excellent cross training for kayaking, since it works out the legs, which are used kayaking but not as much, as well as builds the arms and body core. My kayaking experience consists of playing on lake champlain on my SOT, mostly using it for fishing or just messing around. But I can see how rowing helps.

The one specific thing worth considering for you is an exercise that Xeno does on his first DVD: rowing with one hand, and then at the end of the stroke rotating the body around and bringing the hand back all the way to the side. I can see adding that rotation at the hips as really helping for kayaking.

BrianStaff · Post by **BrianStaff** » March 31st, 2008, 12:45 pm

whitewaterkayaker wrote:In the catch how close should my knees be to each other. If I keep them close it seems my ba11s are always squeesed between my legs.

Before you start erging, you might want to adjust them to be in North/South plane instead of East/West. I had this problem too when I started and it now seems to have subsided. Maybe erging has made them smaller<g>

Brian