High rates vs Low rates
High rates vs Low rates
whats the advantages/disadvantages and benefits to rowing at high and low rates? I've been curious about this in specific for a long time. Share your thoughts.
146lbs
LP: 1:21 / 2k: 6:57
LP: 1:21 / 2k: 6:57
Man, plenty of opinion on that one.. I do:
- 2k's at 25-27SPM (Strokes Per Minute)
- 5k's at 24-25SPM,
- 10k's at 23-24SPM.
Lots of very fast people go with lower rates, others with higher rates. I think I am fairly close to the middle of the road. I dont know if there is any correlation between weight and SPM, i.e. if lightweights generally have higher SPM's than heavyweight's.
My advice, experiment with it and see what feels the best. If you are having trouble with low rate, you might try rowing strapless, which in my experience, is very helpful improving technique (strong drive with the legs, then back, then arms...)
- 2k's at 25-27SPM (Strokes Per Minute)
- 5k's at 24-25SPM,
- 10k's at 23-24SPM.
Lots of very fast people go with lower rates, others with higher rates. I think I am fairly close to the middle of the road. I dont know if there is any correlation between weight and SPM, i.e. if lightweights generally have higher SPM's than heavyweight's.
My advice, experiment with it and see what feels the best. If you are having trouble with low rate, you might try rowing strapless, which in my experience, is very helpful improving technique (strong drive with the legs, then back, then arms...)
Last edited by chgoss on June 7th, 2007, 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
52 M 6'2" 200 lbs 2k-7:03.9
1 Corinthians 15:3-8
1 Corinthians 15:3-8
I guess I use the following rates for the following reasons:
2K and short intervals - 28-32 spm - I think it's important to keep the flywheel going and as much pressure as possible.
5K and more intense aeroebic - 24-26 - This is a higher rate I can hold for 15-25 minutes.
Longer pieces - 20-24 spm - I spend more of my time here. Focus on a relaxed recovery and form.
Warm-up and cool-down - 16-20 spm - Low pressure.
I guess I try to match my stroke rate for what I am trying to do. I haven't done too much Heavy 10's (low stroke rate with much power).
best regards,
Bryan
2K and short intervals - 28-32 spm - I think it's important to keep the flywheel going and as much pressure as possible.
5K and more intense aeroebic - 24-26 - This is a higher rate I can hold for 15-25 minutes.
Longer pieces - 20-24 spm - I spend more of my time here. Focus on a relaxed recovery and form.
Warm-up and cool-down - 16-20 spm - Low pressure.
I guess I try to match my stroke rate for what I am trying to do. I haven't done too much Heavy 10's (low stroke rate with much power).
best regards,
Bryan
I you look at the Crash-B top contenders in each catagory you will find that lighter people tend to row a higher rates. I'm sure that the the same is true for shorter people.
The higher the rate, the less variation in the fly wheel velocity (which is more efficient), but the more wasted energy there is in moving the body back and forth (less efficient). So there is a trade off. The heavier and taller some one is, the more energy it takes to row at a given stroke rating. So you would naturally expect that the tall heavy weights are at an optimal efficiency at a lower rating then short light weights, and the data tends to confirm this.
However, each individual is different, and the optimal stroke efficiency depends on other physical characteristics besides hight and weight (aerobic capacity, % of fast twitch fibers etc.) Also obviously technique and training have a big effect.
The higher the rate, the less variation in the fly wheel velocity (which is more efficient), but the more wasted energy there is in moving the body back and forth (less efficient). So there is a trade off. The heavier and taller some one is, the more energy it takes to row at a given stroke rating. So you would naturally expect that the tall heavy weights are at an optimal efficiency at a lower rating then short light weights, and the data tends to confirm this.
However, each individual is different, and the optimal stroke efficiency depends on other physical characteristics besides hight and weight (aerobic capacity, % of fast twitch fibers etc.) Also obviously technique and training have a big effect.
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superpisti
- Paddler
- Posts: 5
- Joined: June 8th, 2007, 4:05 pm
Not sure what this has to do with stroke rating. Rating and intensity are not necessarily correlated.superpisti wrote:Few months ago in the IAAF site I read a scientific article about it: 2 groups of top runners were enrolled in 2 cohort, some trained with high volume and few intensity, the others vice-versa.
The results were the same.
I would be a bit skeptical of reading too much into this. I haven't seen the article, but they are starting with top runners and I doubt the study lasted long enough to be really evaluate each option.
The first thing to do is develop an efficient and long stroke that moves the boat effectively with as little hard work as possible.
Once developed, we use only that stroke. You´ll know it´s good because you hear the boat sing under you during the recovery.
If then you want to train, not that it should still be necessary by now, you use that stroke at a rating that keeps your heart rate at say 60-80% of reserve for 60-90 minutes. This for a few years, or better still for the rest of your life.
If you want to race, you use that stroke at a rating that will let you reach the finishing line with the last possible stroke and/or one inch ahead of the other lot.
We don´t need to train or race at all ratings. A good man in the stroke seat will pull at ratings that offer comfortable or better said `possible´ rhythms, 3:1, 2:1 and 1:1 when things get hot. But he lets his crew use their stroke.
It´s rhythm and style that count; rating is a consequence.
Once developed, we use only that stroke. You´ll know it´s good because you hear the boat sing under you during the recovery.
If then you want to train, not that it should still be necessary by now, you use that stroke at a rating that keeps your heart rate at say 60-80% of reserve for 60-90 minutes. This for a few years, or better still for the rest of your life.
If you want to race, you use that stroke at a rating that will let you reach the finishing line with the last possible stroke and/or one inch ahead of the other lot.
We don´t need to train or race at all ratings. A good man in the stroke seat will pull at ratings that offer comfortable or better said `possible´ rhythms, 3:1, 2:1 and 1:1 when things get hot. But he lets his crew use their stroke.
It´s rhythm and style that count; rating is a consequence.
08-1940, 183cm, 83kg.
2024: stroke 5.5W-min@20-21. ½k 190W, 1k 145W, 2k 120W. Using Wods 4-5days/week
2024: stroke 5.5W-min@20-21. ½k 190W, 1k 145W, 2k 120W. Using Wods 4-5days/week
Agree with Nosmo
I would agree with what Nosmo said. It seems to me that lighter, shorter idividuals tend to use a higher rate, while taller, heavier folks (like me) use a lower rate. I'm 6'3" 185 lbs, and I can't achieve a rate higher than 32-35 no matter what I do. I tend to do my 2k races at about 31-32, 5k-10k piece more at like 24-25. 2k ~ 7:00, 5k ~20:00.
I notice a lot of posts in various threads about "what rate should I use" or "how should I breathe", etc. As a physician, I think that, with some experience, your body amazingly figures out what is best for you pretty naturally. If rowing at 26 "feels" right, then it probably is for you, and you should do that. If you find it uncomfortable or harder to row at a different rate, etc., then there's probably a physiologic reason (fast vs. slow muscle fiber type, lung capacity, strength, body size/mass, etc.). Some of this could be trained, and I'm all in favor of mixing long steady workouts with interval training (although I admit I hate interval training and tend not to do it as much as I should).
So, mix things up, listen to your body (and note your performance), and you'll find what works best for you.
Tom
I notice a lot of posts in various threads about "what rate should I use" or "how should I breathe", etc. As a physician, I think that, with some experience, your body amazingly figures out what is best for you pretty naturally. If rowing at 26 "feels" right, then it probably is for you, and you should do that. If you find it uncomfortable or harder to row at a different rate, etc., then there's probably a physiologic reason (fast vs. slow muscle fiber type, lung capacity, strength, body size/mass, etc.). Some of this could be trained, and I'm all in favor of mixing long steady workouts with interval training (although I admit I hate interval training and tend not to do it as much as I should).
So, mix things up, listen to your body (and note your performance), and you'll find what works best for you.
Tom
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1225814673.png[/img]
Re: Agree with Nosmo
If you are a rank beginner like me, then I would try mixing up protocols frequently. I do not have a lot of time to erg, so I can find myself settling into a standard workout on the machine.tbartman wrote:If you find it uncomfortable or harder to row at a different rate, etc., then there's probably a physiologic reason (fast vs. slow muscle fiber type, lung capacity, strength, body size/mass, etc.).
When I first started, I rated 30+ of course. Then I read about low rates and tried 16-18 spm. I figured you had to be crazy to erg like that, as it felt so strange. I gave low rate work a try for a while, then found anything over 24+ to feel bizarre.
Search the UK forum and this one and you will find that people who truly are expert at this disagree on the merit of low rate work. I enjoy it for long rows.
In the end it probably depends on your goals, health vs. performance, erg-only vs. OTW, etc.
If you want a plan that mixes all kinds of rate work check out the Wolverine Plan.
Good luck,
Jason