what 5K to be able to have a shot at a 7min 2K?

[Seth]

I would say my arms but guess my legs too, i cant even get my rower to 1:50 pace even on a burn, i hold the handle very wide, but after a bit my fingers kill.

I lift my arms i guess, i have to to get them over my knees, doesnt everyone?

[Seth]

By the way i see things such as damper 139 what does that mean, i have the little slide selector on the wheel at number 4, will it make a difference to my times if i do it to 10.

Edit - just watched a video on youtube of a guy pulling 1:50 for 2k, and i swear that doesnt look that fast yet i cannot get anywhere near it!

[Citroen]

By the way i see things such as damper 139 what does that mean, i have the little slide selector on the wheel at number 4, will it make a difference to my times if i do it to 10.

The performance monitor (PM2/PM2+/PM3/PM4) measures the damping effect of the amount of air through the flywheel cage. So with the lever on 1 less air flows through compared to the lever on 10.

But, there are other external factors that affect how fast the flywheel decelerates - height above sea-level, temperature, air pressure and the amount of crud in the flywheel cage.

The performance monitor calculates an absolute number (drag factor) and uses that to calculate how many watts are being input into the system (remember you the rower are the only source of energy (ignoring the batteries needed to run the PM)).

All the PMs can show that drag factor on their display.

On a PM2/PM2+ (remove your HR belt if you have the polar HR interface), press [OK] and [REST] together. Row six or seven big strong strokes and the drag factor appears in the lower corner of the screen.

On a PM3/PM4 drag factor is a menu option, main menu --> more options --> display drag factor.

The drag factor gives an absolute number. So if I measure the drag as 108 on a model C with PM2 then move to a model D with PM3 and set the drag to 108 it will feel the same, it will row the same and give the same results (all other things being equal).

The difference you get from damper 10 (df 200+) and damper 3/4 (df 108) is the focus of your stroke, a higher drag will then to make you use legs less and arms more.

If you don't get a drag factor value over 200 on damper 10 then the machine is full of crud and needs cleaning.

Drag factor is a FAQ on here and on http://concept2.co.uk/forum there's a large number of items that discuss it. Try using the search option.

[Bob S.]

I lift my arms i guess, i have to to get them over my knees, doesnt everyone?

No. Your hands should clear your knees while your legs are still straight. If you were rowing a boat and had to lift your hands to get them over your knees, you would be likely to hit the water with the oar blades, which usually has serious consequences. It is just the opposite of the drive, in which the legs start first, followed by the back, with the armpull last — after the legs are straight.

Also, the recovery should take longer than the drive at ordinary stroke rates. Most beginners rush the recovery in too much of a hurry to start the next drive.

Bob S.

[Nosmo]

I would say my arms but guess my legs too, i cant even get my rower to 1:50 pace even on a burn, i hold the handle very wide, but after a bit my fingers kill.

I lift my arms i guess, i have to to get them over my knees, doesn't everyone?

Look at that video again, The hands should not be lifting.
Your fingers should not hurt and your legs should be the most tired. Get the technique DVD from C2 -- I think it is free fro the asking.

I've been at gyms where bigger stronger people are next to me rowing at a higher rating with a much higher drag factor and they are at a pace 30 seconds slower. All because of technique.

[Seth]

Ok, ill take that all on board.

The only thing i have noticed from events on youtube is a lot of people lean back on the final pull, where as the diagrams say not to lean and to keep your back straight.

Also, i really find im hunching foward and really making a long pull with the bar, meaning the bar sometimes hits the machine where it prevents the chain going on further.

Is this what i should be doing?

[hjs]

Ok, ill take that all on board.

The only thing i have noticed from events on youtube is a lot of people lean back on the final pull, where as the diagrams say not to lean and to keep your back straight.

Also, i really find im hunching foward and really making a long pull with the bar, meaning the bar sometimes hits the machine where it prevents the chain going on further.

Is this what i should be doing?

Don,t lean back to much
don,t lean forward to much. Get your chest against your thighs but keep your chins vertical, bend the legs not further. This way you won,t touch the cage.
Keep a "strong" back all the way, you should feel a good connetion between the legs and back.
During the recovery, first straiten the arms, and get the hand accross the knees, before the knees start bending. Don,t lift the hands over the knees.

[Seth]

Just pulled 8k in 36:02, only thing hurting is my back, guess im getting there....

[tbartman]

So, I've seen mention of Paul's Law [split improvement=5*((LN(X/2000))/(LN(2)))] (halving of the distance should lower the split time by 5 seconds), but this doesn't seem to apply to me. I do much better at the shorter distances (or worse at the longer distances - depends how you want to phrase it). Does anyone have advice about why this might be (something about my training or physiology)?

For example, after proper warm-up, here are my PB times/splits

2k 7:17.1 for 1:49.3
5k 19:53.8 for 1:59.4
10k 40:28.8 for 2:01.4

Now, I've been exercising only since October, so I'm still in a phase of rapid improvement (I've seen massive weight loss, better HRs, etc.) The 2k and 5k were 2 months ago, the 10k just now. I would assume that I could get the 2k and 5k a bit faster now.

With Paul's Law the 2k-10k difference should 11.6s, but it is at least 12.1s, maybe up to 13-15s now. However, I have little difference in the 5k-10k (2 seconds above, probably 3-4 s now, instead of the predicted 5s).

Since the 2k time is the best (best percentile on the C2 rankings), let's say that time is the "proper one". In that case, I drop off way too much going from there to the longer rows. Any ideas why?

Tom Bartman

[Seth]

Maybe your cardio levels just arent up there or you arent holding enough stamina at the moment for the longer runs?

What do i know tho, im hardly a pro, envious of your 10k time, im going to do one tomorrow, hope to do it in about 46 mins ish.

[Kangaroo]

I've been at gyms where bigger stronger people are next to me rowing at a higher rating with a much higher drag factor and they are at a pace 30 seconds slower. All because of technique.

Yeah, technique makes a huge difference.

Now, I've been exercising only since October, so I'm still in a phase of rapid improvement (I've seen massive weight loss, better HRs, etc.) The 2k and 5k were 2 months ago, the 10k just now. I would assume that I could get the 2k and 5k a bit faster now.

With Paul's Law the 2k-10k difference should 11.6s, but it is at least 12.1s, maybe up to 13-15s now. However, I have little difference in the 5k-10k (2 seconds above, probably 3-4 s now, instead of the predicted 5s).

Since the 2k time is the best (best percentile on the C2 rankings), let's say that time is the "proper one". In that case, I drop off way too much going from there to the longer rows. Any ideas why?

I'm going to answer this with this quote that I really do agree with:

I am going to have to disagree with what everyone is saying here. People i know have pulled 6.55 2km's while pulling a 19.10 for 5000m and some have even been up around the 19.30 mark. Basically it varies for each person and depends on what your stregnth is: aerobic or power?

Everyone settles into different trials differently. You'll get people who can sprint and you'll get people who can row forever and ever.

When you increase your distance, it doesn't only effect your body, it gets to your mind as well. But lets focus on body for now. A 2k and a 5k are different paces - 2k you'll be able to get to a certain split and fight to keep it down for that 6/7 minutes that you are doing it. You have to pace yourself. In a 5k you really need to pace yourself because it is much easier to burn out in this piece, therefore you won't want to go too quickly (which I'm sure you are aware). This piece requires a lot more concentration and even though the formula has that ratio, I really doubt that it can be used to compare 2k to 5k times. It could be used (relatively accurately) for 5k vs. 10k as you will have reached a rhythm that you could keep going for these pieces whereas the 2k is a lot of mental fighting where the rhythm that you have can't be kept forever.


Not sure if I really got to convey what I meant, but hopefully you will understand.