Natural Talent / Potential

[kipkeino68]

I'm curious about other peoples experiences and what potential I might have.
I started rowing 12 weeks ago. After 6 weeks I did a 7.44 for 2K.
6 weeks later I'm down to 7.42.
I would have thought that I'd improve more than 2 seconds!

I know that we all have our own natural ability. It seems that I'm not likely to ever be a sub7 guy.( or 7:30 for that matter)
I'm interested in hearing about how others improved in their first year on the erg.

[Orc]

what sort of sporting background do you have in your recent and distant past?

basically- people respond to training differently

some are naturally fast responders, and some are slower.

also, the more and higher quality training you have as a background, the less you can expect to improve (i.e. you are already close to your potential)

thirdly, some people have an innate head start- e.g. the untrained VO2 Max of some will exceed the highest level of fitness others can achieve, no matter how much they work out.

12 weeks is not a lot of time- too early to say where your ultimate potential will be or to start putting limits on yourself. the world is full of stories of people who couldn't walk up a flight of stairs without keeling over going on to run marathons.

marc

I'm curious about other peoples experiences and what potential I might have.
I started rowing 12 weeks ago. After 6 weeks I did a 7.44 for 2K.
6 weeks later I'm down to 7.42.
I would have thought that I'd improve more than 2 seconds!

I know that we all have our own natural ability. It seems that I'm not likely to ever be a sub7 guy.( or 7:30 for that matter)
I'm interested in hearing about how others improved in their first year on the erg.

[kipkeino68]

Thanks for your answer, Marc.
My sports backround the last 5 years has been running. My personal best was a certified road 10K in 39:26.
I've been hampered with running injuries (knees, hamstring, ect ) Last year I kept 95% of my running to trails.
I thought it was interesting that I matched my running max heart rate (180) on the erg. I'm built like a runner 5'11, 157lbs.

[Alissa]

Before you conclude that you have reached your potential, be sure to confirm with a knowledgeable person that your technique is good. It can make a huge difference in your results!

If you can't find someone locally that can watch you and coach as needed, some people post videos of themselves here. There are also several people who do distance coaching and review videos, etc. professionally.

HTH,

Alissa

[PaulS]

Thanks for your answer, Marc.
My sports backround the last 5 years has been running. My personal best was a certified road 10K in 39:26.
I've been hampered with running injuries (knees, hamstring, ect ) Last year I kept 95% of my running to trails.
I thought it was interesting that I matched my running max heart rate (180) on the erg. I'm built like a runner 5'11, 157lbs.

Oh Man! Sounds like the perfect lwt build, even room to put on a few pounds of muscle and not have any problem making weight.

Plenty of room to improve, and as suggested, if you can get access to some sort of technique evaluation it would be good to do so. Any rowing programs in your area?

[kipkeino68]

I'm fortunate to have Olympic rower Tom Bohrer in my area.
I had a private lesson with him and it helped improve my technique.
I also got the Xeno dvds on Ebay.

[Carl Henrik]

What kind of training have you been doing for the last 6 weeks? Have you measured and seen any training progress like lesser perceived effort for the same workouts or lower heart rates?

[PaulS]

I'm fortunate to have Olympic rower Tom Bohrer in my area.
I had a private lesson with him and it helped improve my technique.
I also got the Xeno dvds on Ebay.

Ah good, I've read quite a bit from Tom's Rowing News pieces and he's well worth listening to.

If you set up and follow a self-determining progressive Pace based plan to improve on the Erg, and stay focussed on forming the best habits you can while working on the Erg, you should show a steady improvement for quite some time. There is no point in trying to rush things along, as that tends to lead to "tricks" instead of real improvement where you need it.

2k's are particularly trying pieces, if really pushing your limit, so you must first learn to plan the test and then stick to your plan. A small deviation from it will have big repercussions on the overall result. Negative split strategy has been discussed quite often, so you can go look or take my word for it that it is the way to go.

The most simple negative split strategy is to pick your goal Avg Pace, and since you are currently at 7:42 (1:55.5), a "step" would be 1:54.5 or 4 seconds off the current, so you would split the 2k into 500m targets of maintaining steady paces of 1:56, 1:55, 1:54, 1:53 giving yourself the option at any juncture to either "move" or "hold". The ultimate goal being to hit them all and perhaps even put in a better sprint when the end gets in sight. Then you can reset the target for the next try. If you succeed, you take the step, if you don't, you already know the plan for the next try.

The "Rookie Mistake" is to blast off and fade away, and it's a tough one to overcome. Perhaps it should just be renamed something other than "Rookie Mistake" since it seems to transcend years of experience when under the influence of excitement and adrenalin.

[kipkeino68]

Carl, I've done 400,000 meters in 12 weeks. My focus was CRASH_Bs.
I've been changing my workouts and its hard to compare my fitness.

Paul, my 2k best was yesterday. First 1500, at an even pace 1:56.x and 1:52.3 last 500.

[Orc]

I really don't know how well running and rowing can correlate. but here's a prediction and you can find out how accurate it is.

according to online calculators I looked at, your 10k would correspond to a VO2 max of about 58.4 (based on an estimated 8:48 1.5 mile run). According to the Fritz Hagerman Erg VO2 max calculator, for a person your size that would predict a 2k erg of about 7:16.

http://www.concept2.com/us/training/too ... vo2max.asp
VO2max Calculator

that's assuming similar efficiency in both sports and that VO2 max values in the 2 sports are comparable for you. (people do tend to have a slightly higher VO2 max in running than rowing, but a high correlation should be expected)
-that these calulators are good predictors
-that your 10k time is recent enough to be valid.
-that I didn't make any stupid mistakes


If these values are correct (maybe that's a big IF) then I would think sub 7:30 is very likely, but sub 7:00 would be out of range of your indicated fitness level.

marc

Thanks for your answer, Marc.
My sports backround the last 5 years has been running. My personal best was a certified road 10K in 39:26.
I've been hampered with running injuries (knees, hamstring, ect ) Last year I kept 95% of my running to trails.
I thought it was interesting that I matched my running max heart rate (180) on the erg. I'm built like a runner 5'11, 157lbs.

[kipkeino68]

Thanks Marc. I think your prediction is right on. I'll set my sights on 7:30

[corpsrower]

I know my situation may not be 100% the same, but when I started rowing in high school I was rowing between 7:45 and 8:00 2k's (sophomore year). Then I coxed for a year b/c I was a short midget who weighed next to nothing, and I couldn't row for crap. The year after that (senior year) I had grown a good 5-6" taller and put on bout 10-15lbs (5'11", 148lbs -ltwt is 150 in HS). I started in the 7:20s and halfway through the spring season I had busted 7.

I don't believe there is a "limit" on how fast you can go, it's just how far you can push yourself before you start losing vital organs (that pesky heart and lungs).

I'm in a similar position right now. Went to college and stayed in good shape, but not crew shape, and now I'm trying to get back into it and I can't seem to bust this hard deck that i seem to be hitting up against. But the times will come down and you will get faster.

Also make sure you are eating right on the day of and before u 2k or race for time/distance. One of the best times I ever rowed was a 5:05 on a 1500m warmup piece one day senior year right after I had taken an AP test. I had a good breakfast and was wired with caffeine (4xStarbuck doubleshots). If I had kept going I woulda pulled sub 6:50, probably around a 6:45 2k.

[Orc]

there's a big difference between the development of a junior or young adult and a masters age athlete with a history of regular training.

the former may be expected to grow by leaps and bounds. but the older you are and the more well trained you are, the harder it is to exceed previous personal bests.

as for limits- we certainly are all born with different potentials. while most may not approach them, the reality is that there are limits to how much you can improve. for example- no matter what you do, your VO2 max can only be improved a limited amount, perhaps 15-20%. if you are untrained and have an 'average' VO2 you may raise it to 'good', but you will probably never reach elite. the international class guys start with a huge head start and build from there.

while I think that younger rowers should focus on improving and having fun, it is also reasonable to accept at some point that we all don't get to be olympic champions, however much we might wish it or try to achieve it.

marc

I know my situation may not be 100% the same, but when I started rowing in high school I was rowing between 7:45 and 8:00 2k's (sophomore year). Then I coxed for a year b/c I was a short midget who weighed next to nothing, and I couldn't row for crap. The year after that (senior year) I had grown a good 5-6" taller and put on bout 10-15lbs (5'11", 148lbs -ltwt is 150 in HS). I started in the 7:20s and halfway through the spring season I had busted 7.

I don't believe there is a "limit" on how fast you can go, it's just how far you can push yourself before you start losing vital organs (that pesky heart and lungs).

I'm in a similar position right now. Went to college and stayed in good shape, but not crew shape, and now I'm trying to get back into it and I can't seem to bust this hard deck that i seem to be hitting up against. But the times will come down and you will get faster.

Also make sure you are eating right on the day of and before u 2k or race for time/distance. One of the best times I ever rowed was a 5:05 on a 1500m warmup piece one day senior year right after I had taken an AP test. I had a good breakfast and was wired with caffeine (4xStarbuck doubleshots). If I had kept going I woulda pulled sub 6:50, probably around a 6:45 2k.

[corpsrower]

I apologize if I was sounding pretentious and arrogant, but the point that I was trying to convey is that while there are limits, you never have to stop pushing on them, and that setting small goals for oneself, 5 seconds here, 10 watts there, all adds up in the end.

[Orc]

I certainly didn't mean to imply there was anything wrong with your attitude!

just that the "headroom" for improvement it different for each person. depending on ones age and experience, the amount you can hope to improve differs. and for very well-trained masters athletes, the only real hope might be to stave off the decline due to aging.

I never expect to pull the erg score I pulled 10 years ago, when I was youngish and rowing a lot.

marc

I apologize if I was sounding pretentious and arrogant, but the point that I was trying to convey is that while there are limits, you never have to stop pushing on them, and that setting small goals for oneself, 5 seconds here, 10 watts there, all adds up in the end.