improving my 2k erg

johannes1212 · Post by **johannes1212** » January 28th, 2007, 8:55 pm

Hi all, im a 15 year old 6'2 80kg guy, with a 2k time of 7:00 (pb, holding 1:45 the whole way), ive been lingering around the 7:00-7:05 time for the past 3 ergs ive done, im still in my novice year in rowing for my school, but people say that i could do much better than a 7:00 which is quite suprising for me because i was quite literally dead after doing a 7:00 for my 2k, my erg at the moment is second best in the novice squad with the best being a 6:38 (yes and the person is still a novice), im in the middle of peak training season with my crew for the upcoming MAADI nationals in March and other major regattas, which means 2x training sessions a day (both usually being on-water) and not many erg or fitness sessions in the middle.
But i was wondering if it is possible for me to get my 2k time down to 6:40-6:45 by the end of April with all this training. I joined my school roing team fairly late, with my next season being my last season of rowing for them, so im aiming to get into senior 8 next season (hopefully), does anyone have any training tips or schedules which might help me achieve my time?

JimR · Post by **JimR** » January 28th, 2007, 9:21 pm

With 2 training sessions a day it would seem like you really can't train more for crew. Do you actually do 2 sessions 6 days a week? IF you do one on Friday and none on Saturday you could add a erg workout, one that is distance oriented (40-80 minutes steady pace).

Otherwise your improvement is largely dependent on how good your coach is. Your best oppurtunity for improvement is to train in the off-season ... you would be able to improve a lot with an hour (plus/minus) a day on an erg.

JimR

johannes1212 · Post by **johannes1212** » January 28th, 2007, 9:48 pm

thanks for the quick reply. well no the timetable is actually more like 4-5 days a week 2x a day, with the weekends off due to regattas, such as the club north islands and westlake regatta, and other smaller ones too.
but i think training in the off season would be the best option for me, it seems that my fitness is the main problem for me, i find it hard trying to keep a steady low split during a 30 minute erg, i usually end up starting at 1:56 and finishing off at 2:01, finding that middle split seems soo difficult for me during long erg sessions

Ray79 · Post by **Ray79** » January 29th, 2007, 7:47 am

From your second post it does seem like your base fitness is the problem as you have correctly identified.

I would say - and this does not go for everyone - that to get down to around 6:40 - 6:45 you need to be doing over 8000m for half an hour - 8km being 1:52.5/500m for 30 mins. This is not true for everyone but is a good approximation. So to be sure you should be aiming for 8100 - 8200m for half an hr free rate.

Your training seems fairly intensive at the minute anyway and remember you are only 15, are probably still growing and need your rest, so when you get a day off, take it. The OTW sessions will stand to you in the long run as far as fitness goes. Just be patient and beware of over training.

And look at it this way - 7mins for 2km is a good score for a 15yr old, and you are second as far as scores go anyway, so dont stress about it and enjoy yourself.

Bes of luck

trailrunner · Post by **trailrunner** » January 31st, 2007, 8:51 pm

I don't think you should be too obsessed with performance at 15 years of age, assuming that this is going to be a lifetime sport for you. I didn't start erging till I was 41, but I know from running that a guy in his teens is just starting out. Work on good sound base and technique. You should have many good years ahead of you, provided that you do not burn out young. Be patient. Slow steady gains (over years) is what you want. And NEVER under estimate the importance of REST! That is when you get stronger. Good Luck!

desfrutado · Post by **desfrutado** » February 14th, 2007, 11:40 pm

you could possibly add in this new workout that i have been doing. What you do is after warming up you set the damper to 10 and do 10 second sprints all out max rate. then you rest for a minute and do another one repeating this till you have done 10-15 of this but you could get by with as little as 5. Really helps improve peak power and it is a really quick workout.

spectator · Post by **spectator** » February 15th, 2007, 6:32 am

desfrutado wrote:you could possibly add in this new workout that i have been doing. What you do is after warming up you set the damper to 10 and do 10 second sprints all out max rate. then you rest for a minute and do another one repeating this till you have done 10-15 of this but you could get by with as little as 5. Really helps improve peak power and it is a really quick workout.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. The risk of injury from this type of workout would be very high.

ancho · Post by **ancho** » February 15th, 2007, 7:16 am

desfrutado wrote:you could possibly add in this new workout that i have been doing. What you do is after warming up you set the damper to 10 and do 10 second sprints all out max rate. then you rest for a minute and do another one repeating this till you have done 10-15 of this but you could get by with as little as 5. Really helps improve peak power and it is a really quick workout.

Where did you get this from?

Ray79 · Post by **Ray79** » February 15th, 2007, 7:39 am

desfrutado wrote:you could possibly add in this new workout that i have been doing. What you do is after warming up you set the damper to 10 and do 10 second sprints all out max rate. then you rest for a minute and do another one repeating this till you have done 10-15 of this but you could get by with as little as 5. Really helps improve peak power and it is a really quick workout.

Who told you this?

Whoever it was you should go back to them with it and ram it down their throat.

The only thing this will do is put you in traction! As for it being a quick work out - you are right there and it could be over a lot quicker for a 15 yr old than first planned!!

The Erg is a CV machine, not a weightlifting one. It should therefore be used as such. There are very few shortcuts to quicker times. Long distances, distance intervals and speed intervals are the way to improve, not back breaking 10 second sprints at Max drag. Train at the drag you race at - that way there are no surprises.

JimR · Post by **JimR** » February 16th, 2007, 3:17 pm

... and yet, in the March 2007 issue of rowing news there is an article about peak power training that describes a workout somwhat similar to what was described in this thread. The eauthor is Ed McNeely and is the physiologist and strength consultant to Rowing Canada.

Maybe the specifics make the difference between a valid workout and something that could hurt you.

JimR

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » February 16th, 2007, 4:18 pm

I agree that building your base will probably give you the greatest returns, along with your regular training.

I did the 10s sprints a few times three years ago with 90s starts (80s rest), usually 2 sets of 5, and they helped my power output and improvement quite a bit. I'd not been rowing for awhile, and they helped me to bring my times back down quite rapidly.

On the other hand, I am stronger at distance. Someone who is already quite fast and lacking endurance would do better to focus on developing more stamina, to make best use of the speed.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » February 16th, 2007, 5:58 pm

JimR wrote:... and yet, in the March 2007 issue of rowing news there is an article about peak power training that describes a workout somwhat similar to what was described in this thread. The eauthor is Ed McNeely and is the physiologist and strength consultant to Rowing Canada.

Maybe the specifics make the difference between a valid workout and something that could hurt you.

JimR

I haven't seen that article yet, but I've met Ed in a Coaching workshop setting and he has the background of being a power lifter, and says some things that go against the grain in what we do in rowing. One thing was to "use the momentum" in various lifts. Unfortunately we don't do that sort of thing in the Rowing stroke since we are dealing more with a relatively fixed speed of contraction but can vary the force being applied. i.e. If you jump all over the catch, you had better be ready to maintain the force through the drive as it won't have any momentum to carry it through to the finish.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » February 16th, 2007, 8:16 pm

Wow, I arrive home to find my copy of Rowing News and the article in question.

Summary:

Warm up really well.

Determine Max Power using DF=200 10 second full slide efforts looking for the highest single stroke value for Watts.

Determine 90% of Max Power.

Workout:
10 Second sprints x 60 second rest

Repeat until 90% of Max Power is not reached on 2 consecutive 10 second trials.

Rest 5 minutes

Repeat the 10 sec x 60 sec rest "sets" until a total of 20 10 sec intervals has been accomplished.

For easier math, just use the Ending Avg Watts for the 10 Sec Max Test, and also for the 10 sec x 60 second "sets". That way it's not so subject to the odd "one-off" stroke that displayed a product of an abnormally high stroke rate. 5 - 7 strokes is all you are going to possible get at full length, so work on making each one the best it can be.

And yes, exercise caution and strict attention to good technique to minimize the risk of injury. This is the type of workout that does not end in "minor injury" if an injury does occur. IOW, if you get hurt doing this type of workout, you will be out for much longer than you want to be.

Ben Rea · Post by **Ben Rea** » February 16th, 2007, 8:30 pm

If your a novice..then is your whole varsity team getting sub 6 !?!?!??!

johannes1212 · Post by **johannes1212** » February 17th, 2007, 8:09 pm

wow thanks for all your input guys, ill definitely look into some of these tips further, MAADI nationals are in 5-6 weeks from now, and from then its my off season and the start of my off season training to try and bring down that time

Our club just did a 2k last week and i got a pb of 6:58 which is quite suprising for me to maintain a steady split of 1:44-45. hopfulle by the end of this year ill reach that 6:40 with the training regimes in the forums
cheers!!