Strength training and ergo training

[newfit]

I am in my mid 40's and am beginning weight training. The immediate goal is to add muscle. I'm looking into adding a cardio component to my exercise program, and the rower sounds intriguing from the point of view of strengthening lower body and back muscles as well as the heart. However, I've read that overdoing cardio can interfere with strength training gains. Does anyone have good experience in combining strength training with ergo/rower training?

[Dreadnought]

I am in my mid 40's and am beginning weight training. The immediate goal is to add muscle. I'm looking into adding a cardio component to my exercise program, and the rower sounds intriguing from the point of view of strengthening lower body and back muscles as well as the heart. However, I've read that overdoing cardio can interfere with strength training gains. Does anyone have good experience in combining strength training with ergo/rower training?

For some intangible reason, rowing appears to be different than many other cardio sports. Many triathletes are reluctant to row for cross training because they are afraid of building up too much muscle, which is just the opposite of what you are concerned about.

It probably depends more on how you do it. If you only do long slow cardio work on the rower you would develop lees muscle than it you did short hard intervals.

I would go ahead and try it. You'll probably find that they will complement each other.

[irrovica]

I am also in my mid forties and had the idea of building muscle through weight lifting a few years ago. All of us must decide what we really want and maybe your goal is to become big. I understood a while ago that my goal is to be strong and flexible with very good endurance. To that end I have chosen indoor rowing as my main activity and to complement my training with body weight exercises (Pilates, Stretching). The result is that I am in my best shape ever. Rowing and Pilates are a real powerful combination giving me strength, muscle tone, lean abs and great flexibility. Lower back pain, etc. has nver been an issue since then.

So, unless you are looking for a mate you might reconsider your goal and figure out what gives you the greatest bang for the buck in terms of long term health.

[hjs]

I am in my mid 40's and am beginning weight training. The immediate goal is to add muscle. I'm looking into adding a cardio component to my exercise program, and the rower sounds intriguing from the point of view of strengthening lower body and back muscles as well as the heart. However, I've read that overdoing cardio can interfere with strength training gains. Does anyone have good experience in combining strength training with ergo/rower training?

If you don,t overdo the cardio you won,t have a probleme at all.
Just do your strenghttraining and add 20 min on the rower. First learn to row then increase the speed to around 85 % of percieved effort for the 20 minutes.

[newfit]

Thanks to all for the very helpful suggestions.

[jjpisano]

Whenever anyone brings up strength training and the rowing machine, I wait for someone other than myself to bring up the subject of Heavy 10's and ergjacking. I've recently (as in the last few days) been asked about the subject and, because the forum now has this fresh thread, I thought I'd chime in on the subject.

A few years back, I decided I had to get stronger so I decided to use the rowing machine instead of weights. I combined Heavy 10's and erg jacking.

I maximized the drag factor and then proceeded to do Heavy 10's. Heavy 10's are done where you pull max effort on each stroke at around 12 s/m. Then you have a short rest and do it again. Each batch of strokes should be considered a set as you would do in weights.

Just as in weight training, you should progress incrementally. Start with a handful of sets during your first Heavy 10's workout and progress maybe by one set per workout. Also consider doing 8 or 9 strokes rather than 10 strokes. Also make sure you have a short rest between sets. Then when you have mastered the load of a Heavy 10's workout, consider jacking the erg with a 2 by 4.

As I progressed, I added a 2 by 4 under the back of the erg. At the end of my time doing Heavy 10's during the first period when I did this type of workout. I had two 2 by 4's under the back of the erg.

Some warnings - I always give warnings when I post about Heavy 10's and erg jacking. The loads on the joints and muscles can be tremendous and this type of workout should be considered equivalent to doing heavy weights with all their inherent risks. Erg jacking also is risky because there is potential for the jacking not to be stable - make sure the jacking is stable. You don't want to abrubtly fall a few inches in the middle of a max effort pull.

Dr Stephen Seilor has an article about using the rowing machine as a strength training tool. After telling you a little about Heavy 10's and erg jacking, I'll further tell you that I don't do either of them in my present training. I think there may be a role for this type of training in some people's training but not for me.

If you want a good solid strength training workout using the rowing machine and specifically training the rowing muscles, then you could combine Heavy 10's and erg jacking for effective results.

This post is a little light on detail but I think I may have addressed the details in previous posts in previous threads. I'll try to address the details if I have a chance or if anyone is interested.

[johnlvs2run]

After telling you a little about Heavy 10's and erg jacking, I'll further tell you that I don't do either of them in my present training. I think there may be a role for this type of training in some people's training but not for me.

If you want a good solid strength training workout using the rowing machine and specifically training the rowing muscles, then you could combine Heavy 10's and erg jacking for effective results.

If they are effective then why don't you do them any more.

[jjpisano]

Good question, John.

I think they are effective for strength training but I'm going for more than just strength training. I like to train for the 2k because I think the 2k is the crown jewel of distances. To do a good 2k, you need strength but also you need lots of aerobic capacity and you need to train your anaerobic capacity as well.

I think my time is best used training my aerobic capacity mostly. Most of the year I pull uninterupted relatively long pieces and for a short period every year I do anaerobic sprints intermixed with aerobic work. My strength training is built into my aerobic work because I pull all my training strokes at the stroke power index (SPI = watts/spm) of my goal 2k. This kind of training helps develop a strong stroke while training me aerobically.

When I did lots of Heavy 10's, I got strong but I lost alot of my endurance.

[fatboyslim]

I am in my mid 40's and am beginning weight training. The immediate goal is to add muscle. I'm looking into adding a cardio component to my exercise program, and the rower sounds intriguing from the point of view of strengthening lower body and back muscles as well as the heart. However, I've read that overdoing cardio can interfere with strength training gains. Does anyone have good experience in combining strength training with ergo/rower training?

I found the CrossFit web site informative on this subject. Simply put they like to combined strength, cardio, flexibility, balance, etc., into their workout of the day. I say "simply because there is quite a bit reading material related to their workouts. They use the erg in some of their WOD's and they highly recommend it. I have tried their workouts and bought my own erg. I was just watching the UFC ALL ACCESS and there was Chuck "the ice man " Liddel training on the erg.

[tdebert]

Newfit,
I've had some success adding rowing on the C2 to my strength training focus. Like others have said, the key is to keep the intensity moderate to high and avoid lots of long, slow distance. In your 40's, you are likely to take a little longer than you might have in your 20's to recover from your workouts. As long as you focus on quality rather than quantity, you should be OK.

I personally have had the best success using two very intense 45 to 60 minute full body strength training workouts and two to three hard interval sessions of 15 to 25 minutes on the erg per week. Any more than that and I always seem to start having problems recovering from one workout to the next.

I'll also add that there are many schools of thought on weight training (and a whole lot of worthless information both on the Internet and in training magazines intended to sell you their products), but one of the best resources I've found is www.cbass.com. If you haven't already found it, this is the web site of Clarence Bass, who is in his mid to late 60's. He's a former competitive weight lifter who has become an authority on general weight training and fitness. He incorporates the erg in his training and has posted some very competitive times. There are close to 200 articles in his web site and all are focused on weight training, diet, and cardiovascular exercise (primarily rowing).

For someone with your interests, I strongly recommend you check this web site out.

Enjoy your training and good luck with the erg.