What is needed for sub 6??

[FB1]

FB1:
"IMO lift weights 2-3 times a week compound exercises or body weight exercises only"

Why 'body weight exercises only' ???
Why not free weights?

jfo

The compound exercises are done with free weights (squats, deadlifts, cleans, bent rows, high pulls, pullovers, lunges and presses etc) supplemented with body weight exercises, or when free weights arn't available (dips, chins, incline situps, leg raises, step ups etc).
Sorry for the earlier confusion.

FB

[jbell]

Sorry to bump this thread, but does anyone know how big Matthias Siejkowski was? I mean, to hold a 1:24 for a 2k is just crazy.

[Bob S.]

Sorry to bump this thread, but does anyone know how big Matthias Siejkowski was? I mean, to hold a 1:24 for a 2k is just crazy.

Was? As far as I know he was and still is 6'9"

Bob S.

[rlholtz]

What about a guy like me who is 5'11", has a long torso and a wing span of 76"?

[jbell]

Sorry to bump this thread, but does anyone know how big Matthias Siejkowski was? I mean, to hold a 1:24 for a 2k is just crazy.

Was? As far as I know he was and still is 6'9"

Bob S.

Yea, I meant is. Sorry. 6'9"! Thats big.

[Bob S.]

Sorry to bump this thread, but does anyone know how big Matthias Siejkowski was? I mean, to hold a 1:24 for a 2k is just crazy.

Was? As far as I know he was and still is 6'9"

Bob S.

Yea, I meant is. Sorry. 6'9"! Thats big.

The first time I saw him was at the CRASH-Bs in 1995 at a reception for invited competitors. He really stood out in the crowd, even though the room was full of rowers, ranging on up to 6'6". At the time he was the holder of the open record for the old 2.5k that was the standard distance until the 1996 C-B. I found a time of 7:10.7 by Googling. I don't know whether or not that was his best time, but it was at a 1:26.14 pace — for 2.5k.

Bob S.

[njsurfboats]

Just to get this thread going again...

Now that Crash-B's are in peoples' sights (not to mention whatever indoor races beforehand) and plenty of college/HS/whatever programs are moving indoors towards the erg and weight rooms, how can those of us hoping to really perform in February achieve that best in the next three months? I know that everyone has a slightly different take, but different approaches work for different people, so suggestions are welcome.

I, for one, went 6:21 last March (6:26 at Crash-B's) and would like to bring that down to 6:16 at least. As a result I am targeting 6:08-6:12 in order to (hopefully) overshoot it or at least hit it comfortably. I feel like I've done everything right so far this fall, laying down a lot of steady state and AT base, along with some lifting, and working towards more flexibility and a more efficient stroke. But what do people think is the next step? I suspect I've spent the past few months training like most people who are looking towards Boston, so where to go from here, for me and everyone who wants to rip on it in Boston?

[Cam]

I know a guy who was under 6 foot, who broke the magic 6 min 2k. He is a national representative though, he was 21 at the time (2001). Anyone who goes under 6min has got to be insane though, it's not for the feint hearted. Good luck with it

[Pete Marston]

njsurfboats,

In your signature it says your pb's are:

2k: 6:21.2
6k: 20:40
10k: 36:29
15k: 55:30
HM: 1:19.15

This makes it quite obvious to me what you need to do to improve your 2k time - improve your endurance, as you're way behind on all the other times. In a 2k I'd finish just ahead of you (less than 10 seconds), but at 6k I'd be 40seconds ahead, over 2mins at 10k, and 5mins over the HM. Just to quantify that in terms of pace, although "only" 2.5seconds faster over a 2k, I'm 6.5seconds in pace faster over a 10k, than your pb. If you could work on endurance and bring down your 10k by a big margin, you will improve your 2k. I assume you're fast at 500 and 1k, and your 2k time comes from natural power? I also assume you're probably a good bit taller than me?

Pete

[njsurfboats]

that's more or less the conclusion that i've come to, last year we did a battery of tests (I think a Canadian national team protocal though I'm not sure) and indexed everything as a % of peak power output and VO2max; while those two numbers squared with each other, my 20', 40', and 60' numbers were decently outside the margins. The past three months I've been putting a lot of meters on the erg and in the single. The 1x sessions have tended either to 60-90' steady state or 3x2k at lower ratings. On the erg, a half marathon every week, usually some sort of 2x6k or 3x5k type workout, and either 6x5' or 4x8' intervals working at target 6k splits (assuming those are indicative, I should be around 1:41-1:42 for 6k right now.) Throw some lifting in there, typically two sessions a week of power cleans, dead lifts, and squats, one session being high weight/low reps (8x5 reps) and the other the reverse (3x15 reps). I 2k'd a month and a half ago at 6:24 and every other week or so I do 60" on 60" off intervals at 2k pace just to get a sense of where I stand, and I get the sense I'm at least a bit faster than that already. But in the end, I'm going to have to slightly re-evaluate my goal, since I set 6:16 as a target when I was 195 lbs. and now, owing to time abroad, I'm now under 175 lbs. Either way, we'll see; if the weight keeps coming off (it wasn't really intentional to lose weight, but it's just a different diet here in Egypt, and I'm able to log a lot of steady state in) I'll at least try and go Lightweight for Crash-B's, in which case even getting back to my PR sounds pretty good. But either way, you're right - I think the easiest way for me to get faster is with lots of Anaerobic and Aerobic Threshold work. And for what it's worth, I'm 6' tall, and getting to 195 took a lot of time in the weight room, which in the end probably wasn't all that cost-effective. Thanks for the advice.

[Chad Williams]

Sub 6 ergers are born to be sub 6 ergers. You will find that most sub 6 ergers pull very good scores on their early years of erging. Body and lung size is a great help to rowing a great sub 6.00 2000m score, these 2 vital bits of equipment can not be made by way of training, you have to be born that way.

I have rowed a 5.55 for 2000m, being 6’7"-8” gives a me massive advantage in pulling the sort of scores I do.

For a person under 6’ tall to pull a sub 6.00 2000m would be an amazing thing to see, this person would have to be genetically gifted

[jbell]

Sub 6 ergers are born to be sub 6 ergers. You will find that most sub 6 ergers pull very good scores on their early years of erging. Body and lung size is a great help to rowing a great sub 6.00 2000m score, these 2 vital bits of equipment can not be made by way of training, you have to be born that way.

I have rowed a 5.55 for 2000m, being 6’7"-8” gives a me massive advantage in pulling the sort of scores I do.

For a person under 6’ tall to pull a sub 6.00 2000m would be an amazing thing to see, this person would have to be genetically gifted

So you don't think that someone can become a sub 6min rower? I pulled decent scores early on (7:07 as a freshmen). I agree that it would be very hard for someone that is 6ft or shorter to break 6min, but it is surely possible I would assume. Wouldn't his rate have to be very high (33+)? I mean that disadvantage he has from being short could be made up for with a faster stroke rate. I've ran into a couple of people that broke 6min (my coach's friends at some of the regattas) and all of them are 6ft 3in and taller. Thats what sparked my original thought of this thread.

[igoeja]

A bit redundant...

Aerobic capacity, paraphrasing, "is 70% dependent on how well one chooses one's parents." Many of the other qualities of great ergers/rowers are physical traits one can't train, such as lung volume, height, and limb length, and although anaerobic capacity is more trainable, much of that is based upon native muscle fiber type and metabolism.

If one has the potential to be great, and anthropometric measurements have been shown to be good predictors of performance, then training can enable a sub-6. It's not that there aren't exceptions, but great outcomes are often the result of taking one's strengths and applying them.

[hjs]

Sub 6 ergers are born to be sub 6 ergers. You will find that most sub 6 ergers pull very good scores on their early years of erging. Body and lung size is a great help to rowing a great sub 6.00 2000m score, these 2 vital bits of equipment can not be made by way of training, you have to be born that way.

I have rowed a 5.55 for 2000m, being 6’7"-8” gives a me massive advantage in pulling the sort of scores I do.

For a person under 6’ tall to pull a sub 6.00 2000m would be an amazing thing to see, this person would have to be genetically gifted

So you don't think that someone can become a sub 6min rower? I pulled decent scores early on (7:07 as a freshmen). I agree that it would be very hard for someone that is 6ft or shorter to break 6min, but it is surely possible I would assume. Wouldn't his rate have to be very high (33+)? I mean that disadvantage he has from being short could be made up for with a faster stroke rate. I've ran into a couple of people that broke 6min (my coach's friends at some of the regattas) and all of them are 6ft 3in and taller. Thats what sparked my original thought of this thread.

The thing Chad is saying is , you can only improve a certain amout and that is not that much. Most monster ergers pulled strog times, the minute they started doing it. Look at the sub 18 mens results. Those guy's are young but already very fast.
Sure you have to train, but mother nature is the most important factor.

To come back to yor 7.07. If you reasenable fit pulling this you will never come close to 6 flat . Harsh but the truth.

[Pete Marston]

Just to back up the "if you have genetic potential, you'll be fast to begin with" people. My first ever 2k in the gym was a 6:42, off very little erg training, and only a moderate fitness level. A couple of years later I was down to a 6:11 with pretty good training, but still not close to the volume or commitment put in by most of the sub 6 guys.

I'm 5'11 tall, and at the time I was rowing 6:11 was around 86kg. Life got in the way a bit in the last couple of years where my best has been 6:14, but training is going well now and looking good for going under 6:10 in 2007.

Although not being anthropometrically gifted for erging, I must have some of the necessary genetics for going fast on an erg. I don't see a sub6 2k as impossible for me...

Pete