Slide Control

[p-fitz]

Hmm, I've probably rowed in boats faster than you, and definitely have Erged faster than you.

How do you know this?

Educated guess. Perhaps "definitely" was a bit strong, but I'd put the odds at 99.9%. Would you feel better about "more than likely"?

I'd feel better about it if you told me that you could pull a sub-5:50 for 2k, which by my estimates would put you in the 99.9th percentile for 2k times. Otherwise, your assertion that you could "definitely" erg faster than becz is nothing more than a guess.

In any event, what does your erg score have to do with whether or not the women rowing in the link becz provided are demonstrating good slide control?

[PaulS]

How do you know this?

Educated guess. Perhaps "definitely" was a bit strong, but I'd put the odds at 99.9%. Would you feel better about "more than likely"?

I'd feel better about it if you told me that you could pull a sub-5:50 for 2k, which by my estimates would put you in the 99.9th percentile for 2k times. Otherwise, your assertion that you could "definitely" erg faster than becz is nothing more than a guess.

In any event, what does your erg score have to do with whether or not the women rowing in the link becz provided are demonstrating good slide control?

Okay, feel better.

Nothing, I never said they didn't have good slide control, or in fact were not rowing well. I said they could do better at the catch. Then it seemed to go sideways with regard to knowlege, experience, skill, and coaching ability. I was just addressing the latter issues. Not that personal skill or ability has to do with being a reasonble coach, but it doesn't hurt to have experience in the area of what you are asking your athletes to do.

[Sitwronge]

PAUL S WHAT IS YOUR ERG TIME FOR THIS YEAR????

DO THEY TAKE THE SAME DRUGS THAT YOU DO AND SAME DOG FOOD??????

THANK YOU FOR GIVING YOUR EXPERT ADVICE!!!!

[becz]

Educated guess. Perhaps "definitely" was a bit strong, but I'd put the odds at 99.9%. Would you feel better about "more than likely"?

I'd feel better about it if you told me that you could pull a sub-5:50 for 2k, which by my estimates would put you in the 99.9th percentile for 2k times. Otherwise, your assertion that you could "definitely" erg faster than becz is nothing more than a guess.

In any event, what does your erg score have to do with whether or not the women rowing in the link becz provided are demonstrating good slide control?

Okay, feel better.

Nothing, I never said they didn't have good slide control, or in fact were not rowing well. I said they could do better at the catch. Then it seemed to go sideways with regard to knowlege, experience, skill, and coaching ability. I was just addressing the latter issues. Not that personal skill or ability has to do with being a reasonble coach, but it doesn't hurt to have experience in the area of what you are asking your athletes to do.

OK, hold on. Let’s review this thread. I put up a video of some nice rowing, stressing slide control. You felt the need to critique it on something completely unrelated. I suggested that in my experience (which is comparable to yours by any measure) this was more of a European style, which you then attacked, asking if I was suggesting you were responsible for the lack of US sculling success, that the national team would do well to listen to you, etc., etc., ad nauseum. The only person who has sent this thread sideways is you. Why do you do that? Whenever someone disagrees with you, you feel the need to respond as if you’ve been threatened. You seem to need to assure the world that no one can know more than you about rowing. Get over yourself already.

And no, you have never rowed faster on the erg than I have. “It was on a model A, and it was 20 years ago, but I’m one of the fastest ever on the erg”. PLEASE, give it a rest. The only thing that matters is today, on similar monitors, over the same distance. Any time you’d like to try me on that, just let me know. I’ll even give you a head start. And you have no idea what boats I’ve rowed in. What an asinine thing to say. And oh, by the way, if you ever want to try me in a 1x as well, let me know. We can make that a test of your 10mps approach versus my more traditional approach. Again, I’ll give you a (large) head start.

And finally, I NEVER SUGGESTED YOU WERE FROM AUSTRALIA! For God’s sake, where do you get these things? You mentioned AUS first, again in an attempt to come out on top, so please pay attention. You pick on John Rupp a lot, but he’s not the only one here who exhibits a split personality. I’ll say again what I’ve said before. Put someone on THE national team (not club nationals, master’s nationals, BIRC, etc.) or coach for the national team, and you’ll earn your pompousness. Even people much more successful than you on this board don’t come across the way you do.

I’m done with you. Fire away again, as I’m sure you will. I’ll let you have the last word.

[p-fitz]

There are probably a handful of people on the entire planet who can pull a sub-5:50 2k. PaulS, if you are one of them , I'll certainly listen to anything you have to say on the topic of erging. A 5:50 gives a man a lot of credibility in my book.

[PaulS]

Excellent Becz, how large a head start you have in mind?

I don't claim to be performing all that well these days, in fact I've pretty much decided that very hard pulling is just not going to be feasible, however if that head start is large enough perhaps it would be a fun and motivational challenge.

Perhaps I read you wrong with the "AUS didn't even show up" just after asking about my clubs JW4x at national selections, then switching to Jr Worlds. The GMS, while published by AUS sources seem to be pretty well accepted around the world for Elite competition levels.

So go ahead, give me that 2k target to work toward and we'll see how it goes when I move back indoors for some training this winter, which appears to have arrived today, 31F this morning.

PS - I always feel the need to critique what is going on, it's the nature of a coach as far as I can tell, if you don't like it, tough, it helps those that do. I like all the feedback I can get.

[DonS]

Paul,

You've said that they could do better at the catch. What specifically would you have them do for more "system acceleration"?

-Don

[PaulS]

Paul,

You've said that they could do better at the catch. What specifically would you have them do for more "system acceleration"?

-Don

I think it's a slight difference that would take the hull from a rather long time to reach positive acceleration (current state) to achieving that more quickly. One thing that would signal that from outside observation would be a bit of splash off the backside of the blade as it enters the water (Bow seat actually does this for several of the strokes seen, but not the majority of them.) This doesn't happen because the rower is catching while the handles are still moving sternward, but because the handles are precisely not moving relative to the hull at the moment they enter the water, thus moving across the water at the same velocity as the hull.

Seen here even at relatively high rates in a very good M2-.

With a hull speed of just 4m/sec, a 0.1 second of missed water is 0.4m less distance covered under power, ensuring a higher power requirement for the eventual drive length and time.

These rowers are very competent and could likely make the change fairly easily, though it is doubtful they would be asked to, as there are at least two schools of thought that are mutually exclusive. The specifics regarding that can be seen in Rowing Biomechanics newsletter.
Boat speed reactions to various stroke profiles.
Some coaches focus very intently on "stern check", and do everything they can to eliminate it, and the rowers follow dutifully, but stern check is merely something to be reduced in time, as it can not be eliminated entirely. In fact, it should be sharp and short, rather than long, even if the long can not be seen as easily and creates the illusion that it is not happening.

The reason for the differences in "time to rise" can be either, the blade was not in the water (what we have in this video), or the physical characteristics of the Rower themselves (which can be trained).

3 Specific examples of how different profiles effect the boat acceleration.

If I were to suggest something to that specific boat it would be to think of the catch as the last thing done on the recovery, rather than the first thing done as part of the drive. This has worked quite well for others doing the same thing.

[PaulS]

There are probably a handful of people on the entire planet who can pull a sub-5:50 2k. PaulS, if you are one of them , I'll certainly listen to anything you have to say on the topic of erging. A 5:50 gives a man a lot of credibility in my book.

p-fitz,
I'd never suggest that a particular level of personal performance guarantees the ideas of an individual have merit (the main reason I don't bother to beat that drum), it's not uncommon to see performances that are spectacular in spite of what they are doing. The ideas either can stand the test of being sound on their own, i.e. produce improved performance for others who subscribe to them, or they do not. Quite simple.