Effects of aging on performance and recovery

[dougsurf]

Why would you want "long slow distance" to be hard.

You should be able to do it all day and not be exhausted.

On the hand if FCR or FCD were easy then that would be nice.

Don't know what FCR or FCD are, and maybe don't want to.

Oh if I had a choice, I wouldn't "want" LSD to be hard. But I don't believe the "slow" in LSD means "as slow as you want". It just means doing a "long" piece, like 15k, much "slower" than you'd do 500m intervals.

Two examples: Xeno calls for 2mmol lactate in his LSD pieces. For me that means 1:52 or 1:53 pace doing a few 5k intervals with a couple minute rests. The first two of those reps are pretty reasonable. I am very glad when the third is over. HR peaking near 170 usually. If I were doing the Wolverine plan, and lets say my last 2k were 1:39, then his Level 4 (LSD) pace for me, for a 22 stroke rate would be 1:51. That much harder in both pace and rate. A third example is that I've often heard folks complain that the UT2 rates in the C2 manual feel much tougher than they expect.

I don't believe there is anything that's supposed to be easy about LSD for serious aerobic training. But if you just like doing it easy, by all means go for it, all day long. And particularly when your body is telling you that this is what you need.

- Doug

[johnlvs2run]

FCR is "fast continuous running".

Likewise, FCD is "fast continuous distance". Same thing.

LSD, i.e. "long slow distance" is, by definition, long, easy, and slow.

Rowing long and slow is not the same thing as rowing fast and continuously. If you do a half marathon at your PB pace that is fast continuous rowing, not LSD. When you want to go easy for recovery then go easy.

The 5k reps you mentioned are not LSD rowing.

HR peaking near 170 usually.

Definitely not LSD.

if you just like doing it easy, by all means go for it, all day long. And particularly when your body is telling you that this is what you need.

Yeah, LSD is always long slow and easy distance rowing.

[hjs]

Why would you want "long slow distance" to be hard.

You should be able to do it all day and not be exhausted.

On the hand if FCR or FCD were easy then that would be nice.

Don't know what FCR or FCD are, and maybe don't want to.

Oh if I had a choice, I wouldn't "want" LSD to be hard. But I don't believe the "slow" in LSD means "as slow as you want". It just means doing a "long" piece, like 15k, much "slower" than you'd do 500m intervals.

Two examples: Xeno calls for 2mmol lactate in his LSD pieces. For me that means 1:52 or 1:53 pace doing a few 5k intervals with a couple minute rests. The first two of those reps are pretty reasonable. I am very glad when the third is over. HR peaking near 170 usually. If I were doing the Wolverine plan, and lets say my last 2k were 1:39, then his Level 4 (LSD) pace for me, for a 22 stroke rate would be 1:51. That much harder in both pace and rate. A third example is that I've often heard folks complain that the UT2 rates in the C2 manual feel much tougher than they expect.

I don't believe there is anything that's supposed to be easy about LSD for serious aerobic training. But if you just like doing it easy, by all means go for it, all day long. And particularly when your body is telling you that this is what you need.

- Doug

What you discribe is not long slow distance. It is not long enough and it it certainly not slow enough. Long distance who do LSD run 2 hours orso and are able to talk the hole way. Cyclers ride for hours and talk and talk and talk.

Sometimes Jr is right. Logic you cant be wrong all the time.

[dougsurf]

I'd have to conclude that there are many definitions of LSD then. I was referring to the level that would have some training effect. Conversational pace is fine for fun, recovery, and basic fitness and fat loss. Just no training effect, except compared to nothing. There just haven't been any serious rowing programs doing this. Even the East Germans, known for the longest and slowest routines way back when, did so at 1.5 mmol or so (see "Rowing Faster"). At their level of fitness, 1.5 is a highly stressed state.

Sure jr is right. It is indeed "long", "slow", and it involves great "distance" to paddle all day long, singing if one wishes. But it won't train you for anything, and to the extent that it replaces good training, and your stated purpose is training, then it truly becomes junk meters. Again, just assuming its training that you want.

The bikers you refer to, if they are pros, must be the 8 hour per day types. If I could row 8 hours per day, then lots of it would be conversational. Stimulated recovery is faster than office chair recovery. If Mike or Xeno were to add conversational rowing to their routines, it would be after and in addition to the nine sessions of hard work per week that they call for first (not to you and me, but to their real athletes). And that circles us back to this thread. Those would be the 20 year olds doing that much work.

[hjs]

I'd have to conclude that there are many definitions of LSD then. I was referring to the level that would have some training effect. Conversational pace is fine for fun, recovery, and basic fitness and fat loss. Just no training effect, except compared to nothing. There just haven't been any serious rowing programs doing this. Even the East Germans, known for the longest and slowest routines way back when, did so at 1.5 mmol or so (see "Rowing Faster"). At their level of fitness, 1.5 is a highly stressed state.

Sure jr is right. It is indeed "long", "slow", and it involves great "distance" to paddle all day long, singing if one wishes. But it won't train you for anything, and to the extent that it replaces good training, and your stated purpose is training, then it truly becomes junk meters. Again, just assuming its training that you want.

The bikers you refer to, if they are pros, must be the 8 hour per day types. If I could row 8 hours per day, then lots of it would be conversational. Stimulated recovery is faster than office chair recovery. If Mike or Xeno were to add conversational rowing to their routines, it would be after and in addition to the nine sessions of hard work per week that they call for first (not to you and me, but to their real athletes). And that circles us back to this thread. Those would be the 20 year olds doing that much work.

I am not saying that lsd should be 100% of your training. I am not Jr
I only said 45/60 min is not long enough to be called long. And slow really means relative slow , that is not slow in real terms.

[rowmyboat]

Thanks for your comments Alyssa - sorry I've taken so long to answer.
In my little seaside town in New Zealand we've just had a huge dumping of snow which is really unexpected down to this level. We, as are several thousand other homes, are without electricity and looks like we will be for at least a week. This is the first day (in 3) that I've been able to drive into work (about 5 miles into town) and access the computer.
Therefore the erging has been put aside and all my efforts are into cooking meals over the BBQ (date scones, pancakes and stir-frys are on the menu) Candle power, kero lamps and the open fire are our priorities in the evening.
How I wish I had an erg at home at home at the moment, but never mind, I'll be back to the gym next week hopefully.

Happy rowing/erging all ....

[johnlvs2run]

There is only one definition of LSD training and this is long slow distance training.

This is all very simple.

If you don't do it then you have no training effect.

So if you don't do the training then you are lazy, and someone who does the training and even less speed than you is going to kick your butt when you race.

The point is that if you avoid the training LSD and don't do it, and instead you do something else that is wearing you down AND not providing you any benefit then you are doing the JUNK meters, and this is the definition of junk meters, when you are doing some kind of junk that is tearing you down and not getting you anywhere.

Multi world record holders Henry Rono, Noureddine Morceli, Ingrid Kristiansen, Haile Gebrselassie, Kenenisa Bekeke and others do this long slow distance running more than any other part of their training.

They know what they are doing and, anyway if you don't want to do it then don't. That is fine with me.

[johnlvs2run]

At their level of fitness, 1.5 is a highly stressed state.

Maybe they did too many junk meters then.