What Training Have You Done Today?

[PleaseLockIn]

Another 30-min form working session.

https://imgur.com/a/6pGf1yp#eqfNKMz --> W
https://imgur.com/a/6pGf1yp#KtyiXSx --> split/500m
https://imgur.com/a/6pGf1yp#fHC4IB1 --> spm
https://imgur.com/a/6pGf1yp#AmPZUuj --> HR

stats:

t: 30:09
d: 6037m
split/500m: 2:29.9
reps: 585
df 5/10: 130
W avg: 105
kcal: 239

still need some form work.

Which parts of your form are bad? You could show a video.

Drag factor is high - I steady state at around 90. Perhaps try 100-110?

This split seems OK. Can you converse several sentences easily? At least your HR had little drift 15 minutes into the piece and besides it was hot.

I would start extending the steady state.

Stroke rate is OK for steady state, but if you want hard steady (UT1) maybe bring it up a notch?

Any goals for the year or next year?

Overall not a bad session. Just hold 2:28-2:30 for the next 6 weeks as your fitness improves. If it improves faster than expected, extend length, not intensity (for now)

When you add a lot of length (e.g. 2 hours) or you’re getting closer to a trial you might want to tighten up the base, but that’s for later.

Today I did deload day 2 of gym. Deadlift and OHP.

Seems my issues were more stress related after all - meditation helped me a lot. Also sleep deprivation doesn’t help matters!

Thanks for the feedback.

There is no goal (which is strange for me) and I would like to improve my fitness and find indoor rowing easy on my body (but a little fat while I gain cardio fitness). I would like to extend SS to longer rows perhaps a 6-week plan to 60 or 90 min SS is good with the 140 HR max. Longer I can't do as I need the gym during the workday and have tons of commitments. (It is very low impact of my joints which is nice).

Yeah, the HR spikes at 15 mins as there are four rowers packed tightly and people literally jump on, do 5 mins "cardio" and pull at like 35spm with no form about 18 inches away from me. (I'm too competitive to not increase my pace if I'm zoned out).

I feel that the arms aren't going fully first on the recovery phase and that it clashes with my legs, so I need some more pick drills.

Thanks for your tips and strategy.

edit: I'm really tight on time. Is a squat the easiest/best thing to do a few sets of to improve at rowing. The gym has 4 squat machines and about 8 performance stations where it's open, which would be nice to get in and out quickly.

Time trials and finding long rows easy at an OK speed are two different things.

I did 5*1000m 1R at 2:01 R20 average. I also did 30R20 ~7100m. Is indoor rowing easy for me? No. Holding 30R20 + 21-22 for over 1 hour will drift my HR to UT1, and that’s using the HRR definition of 70-80%.

Be careful with increasing the duration, the 10% per week is a guideline for a good reason. I’d increase 5 min per week. Maybe 6-7. 90 minutes of UT2 is a good length. People’s physiologies are different- some are good at steady state, some are good at time trials.

Perhaps it could be better to set a goal for fitness in a year? A sub 7 2k? A sub 2:00 30R20? Join a race for 2026 if you want to! As a masters rower having a sub 7 2k is quite respectable. For college students like myself it’s ok to decent depending on weight and experience and height.

What is your max HR? That’s the key question. I got mine from a 30R20. Often you can see a number higher than you think because you are able to hang on even if you’re almost collapsing from the exertion. What HR do you see from pretty hard interval workouts?

But a HR cap of 140 seems safe for the time being. Keep the RPE around 2-3. You could try lactate testing if you have time, to get the zones.

In warmup I recommend practicing the arms going out first fully and the cycling motion, separating each part of the stroke and then combining the stroke together. You could also slightly pronate your scapula and hang off your fingertips to increase stroke length, IF you have the strength to do so. At 5’9 I often touch the end of the Concept 2 machine and still have 0.5” to spare. Slightly overcompressing imo isn’t a big issue as long as you have the dynamic mobility to support a larger range of motion safely. It also lowers the HR and increases pace, many times.

Squats are good, however be sure to also train other supporting muscles. I am on 5/3/1 Wendler, 2x a week which helps strength. Front squats can also train the posterior chain. Higher reps, do not go to failure. If in doubt go slightly too light.

Good luck with your rowing!

[Dangerscouse]

edit: I'm really tight on time. Is a squat the easiest/best thing to do a few sets of to improve at rowing. The gym has 4 squat machines and about 8 performance stations where it's open, which would be nice to get in and out quickly.

If there's dumbbells as well, I'd definitely recommend doing lunges / Bulgarian split squats as this can highlight muscle imbalance. Squat machines are useful, but they will control your general movement in the plane of motion, so supporting muscles aren't used as much.

Pull ups/ bent over rows and deadlifts are also definitely worth adding

[Dangerscouse]

57:27.0 15,000 1:54.9 231 1094 24 149
7:20.0 1,875 1:57.3 217 1045 24 130
7:14.8 3,750 1:55.9 225 1072 24 138
7:11.4 5,625 1:55.0 230 1091 25 143
7:10.0 7,500 1:54.6 232 1098 25 148
7:07.5 9,375 1:54.0 236 1113 25 154
7:06.3 11,250 1:53.6 238 1119 25 157
7:11.0 13,125 1:54.9 231 1093 25 159
7:05.9 15,000 1:53.5 239 1122 25 166

I had no plan for this due to the heat and a still slightly damaged erg. It quickly evolved into a decent session, that was pulmonary limited rather than CV limited, which was a good sign.

I resolved to back off for the last two intervals, but that got ignored as something that Steve Magness said started bouncing around my head. We are programmed to remember the end of a session. If you end it badly, that will be how you remember it, so I duly ramped it up with 200m to go. It was never going to be a steady session, and going a bit more red than grey wasn't a bad idea.

[p_b82]

<snip>
In warmup I recommend practicing the arms going out first fully and the cycling motion, separating each part of the stroke and then combining the stroke together. You could also slightly pronate your scapula and hang off your fingertips to increase stroke length, IF you have the strength to do so. At 5’9 I often touch the end of the Concept 2 machine and still have 0.5” to spare. Slightly overcompressing imo isn’t a big issue as long as you have the dynamic mobility to support a larger range of motion safely. It also lowers the HR and increases pace, many times.

I think one should be very careful about telling people to over-compress at all - it's not about height, it's a person's biomechanics (leg length, body length, arm length, ankle articulation, shoulder mobility, lumbar flexibility etc). I personally can't get anywhere close to the end of the erg without significant over-compressing. I can do it, but I know I'm in a weak position -I immediately feel it in my upper back/shoulders, lumbar region & legs.

And I know I've said it before, but a long stroke doesn't = a good stroke. Trying to squeak out a few more cm's putting the individual into a weak position is a recipe for injury - in older folks this risk is increased as our flexibility typically declines with age.
I personally would always advocate a strong core body position over trying to squeak out a fraction more stroke length - but that's because I don't have the flexibility and have a dodgy back, so I'm maybe biased - but it works for me.

A lowered HR for the same pace/conditions is only going to be an individual working in their most efficient manner - and that has many other factors involved not just stroke length, but rating, DF, humidity, sleep, stress etc etc.

I keep getting the impression that you read things which are rough guides at best, and treat them as facts which are applicable to all - and that's just not how biology works as every-one and everything is unique. (In a similar fashion promoting your objectives onto others as targets they should aim for).
Maybe it's the way you write things - but just remember, what works for you doesn't necessarily work for every-one else.

[alex9026]

57:27.0 15,000 1:54.9 231 1094 24 149
7:20.0 1,875 1:57.3 217 1045 24 130
7:14.8 3,750 1:55.9 225 1072 24 138
7:11.4 5,625 1:55.0 230 1091 25 143
7:10.0 7,500 1:54.6 232 1098 25 148
7:07.5 9,375 1:54.0 236 1113 25 154
7:06.3 11,250 1:53.6 238 1119 25 157
7:11.0 13,125 1:54.9 231 1093 25 159
7:05.9 15,000 1:53.5 239 1122 25 166

I had no plan for this due to the heat and a still slightly damaged erg. It quickly evolved into a decent session, that was pulmonary limited rather than CV limited, which was a good sign.

I resolved to back off for the last two intervals, but that got ignored as something that Steve Magness said started bouncing around my head. We are programmed to remember the end of a session. If you end it badly, that will be how you remember it, so I duly ramped it up with 200m to go. It was never going to be a steady session, and going a bit more red than grey wasn't a bad idea.

Good piece of work here Stu. I like the Steve Magness reference, something I hadn't considered but will do my best to remember!

I keep getting the impression that you read things which are rough guides at best, and treat them as facts which are applicable to all - and that's just not how biology works as every-one and everything is unique. (In a similar fashion promoting your objectives onto others as targets they should aim for).
Maybe it's the way you write things - but just remember, what works for you doesn't necessarily work for every-one else.

You've highlighted this numerous times. Ignorance is bliss.

[PleaseLockIn]

<snip>
In warmup I recommend practicing the arms going out first fully and the cycling motion, separating each part of the stroke and then combining the stroke together. You could also slightly pronate your scapula and hang off your fingertips to increase stroke length, IF you have the strength to do so. At 5’9 I often touch the end of the Concept 2 machine and still have 0.5” to spare. Slightly overcompressing imo isn’t a big issue as long as you have the dynamic mobility to support a larger range of motion safely. It also lowers the HR and increases pace, many times.

I think one should be very careful about telling people to over-compress at all - it's not about height, it's a person's biomechanics (leg length, body length, arm length, ankle articulation, shoulder mobility, lumbar flexibility etc). I personally can't get anywhere close to the end of the erg without significant over-compressing. I can do it, but I know I'm in a weak position -I immediately feel it in my upper back/shoulders, lumbar region & legs.

And I know I've said it before, but a long stroke doesn't = a good stroke. Trying to squeak out a few more cm's putting the individual into a weak position is a recipe for injury - in older folks this risk is increased as our flexibility typically declines with age.
I personally would always advocate a strong core body position over trying to squeak out a fraction more stroke length - but that's because I don't have the flexibility and have a dodgy back, so I'm maybe biased - but it works for me.

A lowered HR for the same pace/conditions is only going to be an individual working in their most efficient manner - and that has many other factors involved not just stroke length, but rating, DF, humidity, sleep, stress etc etc.

I keep getting the impression that you read things which are rough guides at best, and treat them as facts which are applicable to all - and that's just not how biology works as every-one and everything is unique. (In a similar fashion promoting your objectives onto others as targets they should aim for).
Maybe it's the way you write things - but just remember, what works for you doesn't necessarily work for every-one else.

I agree, maybe I write too generally and just press submit. Too hasty. But yeah, I would also say have a strong core position way before considering any overcompression. Stroke length is not the only factor, and that's quite true

Sometimes I do read things which are rough guides and treat them... not exactly facts, but generalise too much. And honestly... maybe he doesn't need to go for a sub 7 2k. Maybe he can start with a 7:30 2k.

I agree, many people are different. And it somewhat is the way I write things.

[p_b82]

Friday was crazy busy got a food shopping trip in early, but still was at work at 9:30am and didn't log off until just past midnight; so no row.

Saturday I went for a 45min amble at 9:30 as I needed to get some non-rowing exercise (and before the heat set in)

did 45mins weeding in the shade this morning, and as I was about to nod off watching the moto3 race (delayed) I figured a row in a room that's 27c would be a good idea...

very hot, very sweaty and RPE well above what it ought to have been with the gentle ramp up.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
20:00.0 4,564 2:11.4 154 830 22
4:00.0 889 2:14.9 142 789 22
8:00.0 908 2:12.1 152 821 22
12:00.0 914 2:11.2 155 832 22
16:00.0 919 2:10.5 157 841 22
20:00.0 934 2:08.4 165 867 22

[jcross485]

7/13 - Weight vest circuits. This morning was one of the first in a while where I was just not feeling it. Yesterday's strength session went well but we had a busy day at home from there. Both of my kids had a hard time sleeping last night for some reason so my sleep was quite intermittent; this might have had something to do with it. That said, I convinced myself that it would be better to do something than nothing; I set a bare minimum in my mind and said as long as I do that, I will chalk the day up to a win, and anything I choose to do beyond that is a bonus. I ended up doing the bare minimum and calling it.

Pull-Ups (5 reps), Push-Ups (10 reps), Walking Lunges (15 reps per leg) - 1 round with body weight only, 10 rounds with 12kg weight vest.

[Kerry1960]

This months CTC plus the hot weather has encouraged me to try the short sprints for the first time and quite pleased with the results. Last couple of days just 2.5k warm up then 100m yesterday and 1 min today.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
0:17.5 100 1:27.5 522 2098 48 108
0:17.5 100 1:27.5 522 2098 48 108

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
1:00.0 333 1:30.0 479 1947 43 132
0:20.0 112 1:29.2 492 1992 45 105
0:40.0 113 1:28.4 505 2038 42 139
1:00.0 109 1:31.7 453 1859 42 152

[Dangerscouse]

I like the Steve Magness reference, something I hadn't considered but will do my best to remember!

Thankfully the foot hangar is still clinging on with only one bolt and the new one is arriving tomorrow

I really recommend either reading Steve's IG posts and reading his two books, or listening to the audio books. He's very insightful and writes some tremendous advice

[flatbread]

His podcast is really good, too.

Podcast | Science of Running https://share.google/T158ueYUxT80jW1GP

[rdraheim]

Time trials and finding long rows easy at an OK speed are two different things.

I did 5*1000m 1R at 2:01 R20 average. I also did 30R20 ~7100m. Is indoor rowing easy for me? No. Holding 30R20 + 21-22 for over 1 hour will drift my HR to UT1, and that’s using the HRR definition of 70-80%.

Be careful with increasing the duration, the 10% per week is a guideline for a good reason. I’d increase 5 min per week. Maybe 6-7. 90 minutes of UT2 is a good length. People’s physiologies are different- some are good at steady state, some are good at time trials.

Perhaps it could be better to set a goal for fitness in a year? A sub 7 2k? A sub 2:00 30R20? Join a race for 2026 if you want to! As a masters rower having a sub 7 2k is quite respectable. For college students like myself it’s ok to decent depending on weight and experience and height.

What is your max HR? That’s the key question. I got mine from a 30R20. Often you can see a number higher than you think because you are able to hang on even if you’re almost collapsing from the exertion. What HR do you see from pretty hard interval workouts?

But a HR cap of 140 seems safe for the time being. Keep the RPE around 2-3. You could try lactate testing if you have time, to get the zones.

In warmup I recommend practicing the arms going out first fully and the cycling motion, separating each part of the stroke and then combining the stroke together. You could also slightly pronate your scapula and hang off your fingertips to increase stroke length, IF you have the strength to do so. At 5’9 I often touch the end of the Concept 2 machine and still have 0.5” to spare. Slightly overcompressing imo isn’t a big issue as long as you have the dynamic mobility to support a larger range of motion safely. It also lowers the HR and increases pace, many times.

Squats are good, however be sure to also train other supporting muscles. I am on 5/3/1 Wendler, 2x a week which helps strength. Front squats can also train the posterior chain. Higher reps, do not go to failure. If in doubt go slightly too light.

Good luck with your rowing!

Thank you for the excellent advice.

To behest, rowing has forced me to clean up my diet and get better sleep and my RHR has dropped to the high 50s. The Max I've seen since rowing (3 weeks) is 173 and that was on a 500m test (1:46.1 HR from 93 to 173 after rowing 1000m SS). A few years back (2 or so), I could hit 190 at the end of a 5k park run (watch not HR band).

I'll start the Pete's today so I'll get some interval work in over the programme here: https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/

I'm just start the first week with a little longer rows since I'm doing (6k rows) and focus on my timing and form. It will be good to really focus on this.

Many thanks for your advice and have a nice week.

[Dangerscouse]

1:05:32.7 16,093 2:02.1 192 960 20 132
12:13.5 3,000 2:02.2 192 959 20 126
12:13.1 6,000 2:02.1 192 960 20 130
12:12.9 9,000 2:02.1 192 960 20 131
12:12.8 12,000 2:02.1 192 961 20 136
12:13.0 15,000 2:02.1 192 960 20 137
4:27.5 16,093 2:02.3 191 957 20 138

It looks like I lost a bit of focus at the end. Another sweaty session, but hopefully the temperatures are dropping back down again from tonight

[alex9026]

27:52.4 8,000 1:44.5 306 1354 23 166
6:50.6 2,000 1:42.6 324 1413 26 159
6:48.7 2,000 1:42.1 328 1429 25 165
6:49.9 2,000 1:42.4 325 1419 25 173
7:23.3 2,000 1:50.8 257 1184 19 169

4x2k/4:00. The last piece was a low heart, I was fried. Hot, headache setting in (humidity), I was well ahead of target 1:43 pace, so still a good session. First outing with the heart rate monitor, this was a solid 8 out of 10 rpe.

I may switch this to a weekly 4x8minute session piece and keep it HR focused, with a view to increasing the duration, not pace. It would likely do my middle distance pieces wonders. And keep the short distance pieces of the Pete Plan (500's, 1k's and pyramid).

[alex9026]

His podcast is really good, too.

Podcast | Science of Running https://share.google/T158ueYUxT80jW1GP

Thanks for the link, I do like a good podcast...