Tennis elbow and resuming activity

[nimbuscile]

Hi all,

Relative newbie to this world (C2 owner for just over a year). I'd been using the Erg 3 times a week doing a mix of 3k, 5k and 1k sprint races. In the new year, I decided to start the Beginner's Pete Plan. Aside from the mental shock of keeping focussed and motivated during the longer rows (I mean, 30+ minutes of that is boring as hell, let's be honest!), it was all going well.

Or so I thought. I'd noticed some minor elbow strain in my right arm but this stopped as soon as the activity stopped, so I thought nothing of it. Then 3 weeks ago, it didn't stop after the activity stopped and I realised I'd now got tennis elbow (at least, everything pointed to that).

I've been icing, ibuprofen, doing Tyler Twists and other exercises and bought a compression strap. It's still present but manageable. For clarity I took 3 weeks off of all rowing and drumming for rest. I tried my first row last week (3k) wearing the strap and it was OK. Not great, but OK.

My question is a) how long can I expect symptoms to last and b) how should I resume the BPP?

Ignore what I was on and just go back to 5k and build up again? I suspect I caused the injury from flaring my arms to extend my drive length.

For info, I'm 50yo, 6'1, 13st7, moderately fit (at best) and also drum and golf (neither of these activities have given me elbow jip previously before anyone leaps to conclusions there).

Any and all advice gratefully received.

[Slidewinder]

My advice is to read the thread 'Split Handles' by nates (Nov. 5, 2024) in the Indoor Rower section. You could also search the forum archives for other reports of user wrist and elbow injury. Some have been debilitating, requiring surgery. Probably there are many more injuries than reported here. I suspect sufferers remain silent because they know they will get no sympathy from C2 enthusiasts. Poor technique, they all cry in unison. Maybe the flaring of your arms is contributing to your pain, but it is also natural for the angle of the arms to change as the stroke progresses - as the hands move from an outstretched position to a position closer to the body. The rigid, single-piece C2 handle does not accommodate any angular change of the user's arms. That is the real problem, not you.

[Nomark]

I don't have any direct experience but it may be that the BPP was too much too soon for the tendons in your arm. There's some useful threads on the subject linked below. Unfortunately they seem to suggest rest in the first place, but a proper medical opinion might be better in this case rather than us randoms on the net.

viewtopic.php?t=12340

[rickbayko]

I've had that issue on and off for years. For me it's because I bend my elbow too soon on the drive. If I concentrate on keeping the elbow straight during the leg drive, essentially focusing on locking it out during the recovery and keeping it there, the problem goes away. When I get lazy and stop thinking about it I fall back on bending too early and the problem comes back.

Icing immediately after a workout has helped me to ease the pain while continuing to work out. Ibuprofen never made a difference.

[Sakly]

More likely than the handle causing the issue, it is a kind of overload issue, probably combined with technique issue (no, not a concept 2 fanboy, but if this would be true, all concept 2 users would show up with such problems).

When you break your arms early - common thing I see - this can maximise the occurrence of tendon stress and problems.
Additional other activities can load the tendons, so probably golfing on its own is no problem, but adding rowing to the game with too much too soon and/or poor technique gets you above the threshold your tendons can handle.

Tendons adapt very slow, tendons heal very slow. So if there is already an issue, you need to reduce tendon stress aka take a rest.

[nimbuscile]

I don't have any direct experience but it may be that the BPP was too much too soon for the tendons in your arm.
viewtopic.php?t=12340

You may be right. It did feel like a massive uplift going from averaging 10-12k p/w to 20k+.

[Dangerscouse]

I suspect I caused the injury from flaring my arms to extend my drive length.

I suspect that is probably the issue. Also, do you yank the chain (not a euphemism) when you get tired? Technique is one of the first things to fail when we get tired, and as a newbie it's even worse.

[JaapvanE]

More likely than the handle causing the issue, it is a kind of overload issue, probably combined with technique issue (no, not a concept 2 fanboy, but if this would be true, all concept 2 users would show up with such problems).

Agreed. And it matches my personal experience as well: breaking the arms too early resulted in stressed out elbows in my case as well, which disappeared for good when I learned to break my arms late in the stroke (even with 150K+ weeks!).

When you break your arms early - common thing I see - this can maximise the occurrence of tendon stress and problems.

When you look at the force curve, it is actually pretty obvious. My peak force at 2:15/500m is around 450N. Image what happens when you break early: you get 225N per biceps with quite a jolt, where you don't release the stress (keeping your arms bent or even try to bend them further!). Once might work, but you do a 100 bicep curls with 22,5kg per biceps per 1000 meters. The forces are extremely brutal...

[Nomark]

You may be right. It did feel like a massive uplift going from averaging 10-12k p/w to 20k+.

It's not very helpful to point out now but the initial pain was probably your bodies way of warning you. I had some issues with my back due to the volume of the plan and (probably) issues with my stroke and had to rest it a little a couple of times in the plan. Once you are recovered try not to just work through any aches and pains as that might not be possible and could do more harm than good, and instead rest a bit more if your body needs that adjustment. Sorry, again, to be a little bit hindsight-y!

[Slidewinder]

Don't be a fool. Throw the C2 stock handle in the garbage before it is too late. Build and install a split handle to ensure that your hands, wrists, and forearms remain aligned with the direction of applied force throughout the stroke.

[alex9026]

Any and all advice gratefully received.

I've been struggling with it on and off since early December. I wasn't Erg'ing much then and put it down to pushing the strength work too quick too soon. As mentioned above, muscles adapt quickly relative to tendons...

It was getting quite bad mid January to the point I almost dropped a dish pan after a sharp pain jolted down my forearm. So I booked in with a physio, he diagnosed the issue and his hands on work was really beneficial. Coupled with stretching my forearm and an anti inflammatory gel, six weeks of treatment was working well, but I do still get the occasional niggle/flare up. If I put it under repeated stress at work or general life stuff I can definitely feel it the next day. I have missed the odd Erg session in favour of a run to give it a days rest and strength work is quite restricted, but 90% of the time I carry on as the norm.

I'd see a Dr or physio, the severity of these things can vary. Not sure I'd fancy a round of golf with a sore elbow...

[nimbuscile]

I'd see a Dr or physio, the severity of these things can vary. Not sure I'd fancy a round of golf with a sore elbow...

I'm seeing a specialist fornother thing at the moment, so may well get her to look at this instead for a session. Oddly, the golf doesn't seem to have any real impact at all. I've paused the drumming and gone back to lower distances for the erg this week (after a 3 week lay off) and will see how that develops.

[p_b82]

I see our resident troll has already told you it's all the erg handle's fault - but it is probably your grip and your sequencing - probably worth ruling the latter two out before you consider alternate handles.

I say grip, because if you've only hooked your fingers over, it will put stress on the tendons in the forearms, and if you've got a slight bend in the elbow too, that will exacerbate the stresses.

you could potentially do some "no arms" rowing for a little while you re-hab as well - keep your elbows straight and just use legs and back; you'll obviously have a shorter stroke, but it should keep the stress off the tendons while they recover.

[nimbuscile]

I see our resident troll has already told you it's all the erg handle's fault - but it is probably your grip and your sequencing - probably worth ruling the latter two out before you consider alternate handles.

I say grip, because if you've only hooked your fingers over, it will put stress on the tendons in the forearms, and if you've got a slight bend in the elbow too, that will exacerbate the stresses.

you could potentially do some "no arms" rowing for a little while you re-hab as well - keep your elbows straight and just use legs and back; you'll obviously have a shorter stroke, but it should keep the stress off the tendons while they recover.

That's not a bad idea on the no arms thing. Will give that a go tonight.

I do tend to only use fingers as I thought this was preferred? Pretty sure my sequencing is fine though (I assume you mean legs, tilt, pull, release, tilt, legs etc.?). Also, troll or not, there's a lot of biomechanical sense in having a split grip over the fixed bar, surely?

[gvcormac]

If you consult the legitimate medical literature I think you'll find out that tendonopathy has little to do with inflammation, and that NSAIDS (e.g. ibuprofen) and ice will have no effect.

What is recommended is to continue exercise, but with force reduced enought that you have no after-exercise pain.

This worked for me for climber's/golfer's elbow that I got from chinups/pullups. I've also had tennis elbow from slipping while flipping a mattress. That required a wrist brace and months to recover. Now that I'm thinking maybe a wrist brace would help you? Get one with a splint in it, not just a wrap.

if rowing is doing it you might consider increasing your stroke rate, thus pulling more gently on each stroke. This may or may not involve reducing the drag factor.