Thanks Once Again!

[milansanremo]

This forum has been extremely helpful in getting me started on this rowing adventure. It's highly motivating for me since I'm a "nobody". It's the first sport I've started that I wasn't breaking national records in the first year of activity. It's shocking, how fast the top guys are in my age group are (64).... additional motivation..lol. Since starting the logbook on 1/13/2025 I've done 664,414 m. Virtually all of it has been at a comfortable to slightly uncomfortable pace.
My thinking was to get in a base (of some degree) before going head first into hard intervals. I have started some interval training, but at a moderate pace.
My question is "What would you do?" I could ramp up the meters to 30k a day if you think that would be productive. How long should I continue to build this base (with the average comfortable pace/500m) continuing to rise ? My goal (for now) is to do a 6:59 2k by the end of this year. Maybe that shows how ignorant I am, although I realize it would be a huge feat being my age and never rowed until now.
My logbook is marked public if that would be helpful to take a quick look at.
https://log.concept2.com/share/2503523/99155673

Thanks Again For Your Help!
John

[PleaseLockIn]

I would say keep base building until Aug/September, then starting from Sep/October do more sprints/intervals, etc., so focus more on steady state.

Right now, you probably have a sub 7:45 2k in you considering your last interval session.

My schedule for this week is this - Sun rest, Mon test piece, Tue basketball and UT1 SS, Wed rest, Thu interval, Fri strength train and UT1 SS, Sat strength train. But this is because I only have ~6 months until trial for a 1:59 30r20, and a tough schedule. If I have more time, I will replace UT1 SS with UT2 (~1 hr or longer)

30r20 is ~70% of 2k watts in a balanced rower, so if my 2k can keep up with my 30r20 I would be around ~7:04 2k pace.

Stephen Seiler (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U) talked about polarized training, and others talk about pyramid training - either is fine.

I would suggest 2x UT2, 1x UT1. 1x interval, 2x strength training, for at least a few months. You can spread them out, or double up with strength training first then SS at UT2 after. Use the free spirits rowing calculator to check your HR bands. I tend to do UT1 at r19-r20 and UT2 trying to get back down to r18. Yes, it seems like a low rate for 2k, but you can train higher rates as you progress throughout the year.

Testing your 2k every few weeks (to train test performance, psychological performance in test, etc.) should suffice for now.

Good luck!

[milansanremo]

Thanks for taking the time to give me your advice...
Many Thanks
John

[Nomark]

Welcome to the forum. As you have already seen it's great - very supportive and with a huge collective experience that people are only to happy to share.

I've only been at this a short time but from what I've worked out the steady state long pieces that you do are the main driver for fitness and time improvements. Intervals are good for getting used to the technique and demands of going faster but it all stems from the long pieces work. Looking at your shared workout, a stroke rate of 24 is considered quite slow for 500m intervals although the time is good. Ideally these would be done at 30+ and I believe a sub 7 2k would need a similar stroke rate. So that's where the interval work comes in, to get your body used to the mechanics and demands of higher rates. But obviously plenty of time for that.

I can't see the whole log, just your latest piece, might be my ignorance or you could share your profile page. Hopefully your long rows are getting faster over time, even if just by a little.

I believe the more steady state the better so 30k would improve your fitness tremendously, although I'm sure there are diminishing returns at some point and I can't speak from experience. You may want to mix up a slower 20-30k with a quicker 10k to get your heart working at different rates and to keep things interesting, although again I'll defer to more experienced members. The best training is the one that will keep you coming back for more, and only you know yourself what will keep you interested.

Good luck with your training and keep us posted. There's a "what training have you done today" thread in the training section of the forum if you like.

[p_b82]

No coach, and a relative n00b still, with the same target 2k time but I'm looking a lot further into the future to achieve it - so this advice can be taken with a pinch of salt.

In the V2 training guide - (find it here - which is quite old there's some good general info about training approaches, and some training plans you might want to take a look at.
(plus all the other material that is out there online)

Training daily and high volume, you need to make sure you balance the recovery with the sharp stuff - If you just base build, you'll get exceptionally good at rowing slower/gently and your higher rating / higher power stuff will suffer.

As a note if you are doing over 30k per day that's more than the weekly 110k marathon plan has - and that only has one 35k row 4 weeks out from M'day.
(Though I do acknowledge that you are splitting your rows during the day so that reduces the loading on the body).

I followed the 80k plan when I trained for my marathon for about 3 months (mostly did the last half of it) - and for my longer stuff I was amazed at the improvements I made in that short time with 4 days a week on the erg only.

You may find you react better to long slow conditioning and then some intense sharpening 2 months is out from TT day, or you may find you prefer to start focusing on the 2K now and progressively build, and/or a combination of both

I think that would really depend on the sorts of sessions that keep you coming back - and how you manage to self motivate - and how your body responds to the training loading.

I know that there coaches out there that can tailor a specific plan to you as well - so depending on how competitive you are/want to be you might want to consider that route too.

[MPx]

I can't see the whole log, just your latest piece

John was a bit specific with his link - the open log is here https://log.concept2.com/profile/2503523/log

My first impressions are of a bit of a scattergun approach - I can't see the structure or rationale. There's a lot of individual pieces on single days. Some are a few hundred meters, some are more meaningful. It doesn't appear to be warm up/training piece/cool down, but maybe that is what's going on?

John, my impression from your posts more than the log is that you have always had a strong fitness base but are new to erging so no specific crossover to the demands of the erg. Most of the advice here (which I agree with) should be well known to you from other sports. Take your time to get the basic form right, build a base, then do a couple of months sharpening before taking the test. But that may not be right for you mentally given your history - ie a little bit of impatience to move on? As you have a fitness base of sorts the only critical thing is to get the form right so that you don't ingrain bad habits. After that, you could move straight to the sharpening phase (eg the PetePlan 2k - with comparatively low risk of injury) with a view to testing where your 2k is in say 6 weeks time. Once you have that base knowledge then you can use that time achieved to set the levels for a longer period of base training towards a new goal. Just a thought...

[milansanremo]

I can't see the whole log, just your latest piece

Is this better?
This is the link I get logging in (outside of the erg data app).

https://log.concept2.com/profile/2503523



John was a bit specific with his link - the open log is here https://log.concept2.com/profile/2503523/log

My first impressions are of a bit of a scattergun approach - I can't see the structure or rationale. There's a lot of individual pieces on single days. Some are a few hundred meters, some are more meaningful. It doesn't appear to be warm up/training piece/cool down, but maybe that is what's going on?

John, my impression from your posts more than the log is that you have always had a strong fitness base but are new to erging so no specific crossover to the demands of the erg. Most of the advice here (which I agree with) should be well known to you from other sports. Take your time to get the basic form right, build a base, then do a couple of months sharpening before taking the test. But that may not be right for you mentally given your history - ie a little bit of impatience to move on? As you have a fitness base of sorts the only critical thing is to get the form right so that you don't ingrain bad habits. After that, you could move straight to the sharpening phase (eg the PetePlan 2k - with comparatively low risk of injury) with a view to testing where your 2k is in say 6 weeks time. Once you have that base knowledge then you can use that time achieved to set the levels for a longer period of base training towards a new goal. Just a thought...

[milansanremo]

No coach, and a relative n00b still, with the same target 2k time but I'm looking a lot further into the future to achieve it - so this advice can be taken with a pinch of salt.

In the V2 training guide - (find it here - which is quite old there's some good general info about training approaches, and some training plans you might want to take a look at.
(plus all the other material that is out there online)

Training daily and high volume, you need to make sure you balance the recovery with the sharp stuff - If you just base build, you'll get exceptionally good at rowing slower/gently and your higher rating / higher power stuff will suffer.

As a note if you are doing over 30k per day that's more than the weekly 110k marathon plan has - and that only has one 35k row 4 weeks out from M'day.
(Though I do acknowledge that you are splitting your rows during the day so that reduces the loading on the body).

I followed the 80k plan when I trained for my marathon for about 3 months (mostly did the last half of it) - and for my longer stuff I was amazed at the improvements I made in that short time with 4 days a week on the erg only.

You may find you react better to long slow conditioning and then some intense sharpening 2 months is out from TT day, or you may find you prefer to start focusing on the 2K now and progressively build, and/or a combination of both

I think that would really depend on the sorts of sessions that keep you coming back - and how you manage to self motivate - and how your body responds to the training loading.

I know that there coaches out there that can tailor a specific plan to you as well - so depending on how competitive you are/want to be you might want to consider that route too.

Thanks for the link to the V2 training !
Much appreciated

[Nomark]

Is this better?
This is the link I get logging in (outside of the erg data app).

https://log.concept2.com/profile/2503523

That's the one, thanks. As Mike said, I could have worked it out just by deleting the last bit of your previous link, but I didn't know that

[Dangerscouse]

This forum has been extremely helpful in getting me started on this rowing adventure. It's highly motivating for me since I'm a "nobody". It's the first sport I've started that I wasn't breaking national records in the first year of activity. It's shocking, how fast the top guys are in my age group are (64).... additional motivation..lol. Since starting the logbook on 1/13/2025 I've done 664,414 m. Virtually all of it has been at a comfortable to slightly uncomfortable pace.
My thinking was to get in a base (of some degree) before going head first into hard intervals. I have started some interval training, but at a moderate pace.
My question is "What would you do?" I could ramp up the meters to 30k a day if you think that would be productive. How long should I continue to build this base (with the average comfortable pace/500m) continuing to rise ? My goal (for now) is to do a 6:59 2k by the end of this year. Maybe that shows how ignorant I am, although I realize it would be a huge feat being my age and never rowed until now.

I agree with what Mike said. You will benefit from a more structured approach, if for no other reason, it'll be easier to filter out what works and what doesn't.

Given your background it looks to me that your base needs sharpening not building, which will happen fairly quickly, assuming you've stayed active over recent years? Technique is vital, so keep concentrating on it every time you get on the erg.

30k a day may be good for you, but that is a huge amount, so it may also be detrimental to your recovery. I'd probably be aiming for about 70-80k a week at the moment, with a view to increasing it if you feel capable. Doing longer distances isn't an end in itself, but only a means to an end, so you may find a tipping point of efficiency, albeit it can sometimes masquerade as fatigue even when you're making progress (something I'm sure you're very familiar with from your cycling background).

Moderate pace for intervals is good, and then you can keep ramping it up. Something that the Pete Plan will be able to give you as a detailed guide.

[milansanremo]

This forum has been extremely helpful in getting me started on this rowing adventure. It's highly motivating for me since I'm a "nobody". It's the first sport I've started that I wasn't breaking national records in the first year of activity. It's shocking, how fast the top guys are in my age group are (64).... additional motivation..lol. Since starting the logbook on 1/13/2025 I've done 664,414 m. Virtually all of it has been at a comfortable to slightly uncomfortable pace.
My thinking was to get in a base (of some degree) before going head first into hard intervals. I have started some interval training, but at a moderate pace.
My question is "What would you do?" I could ramp up the meters to 30k a day if you think that would be productive. How long should I continue to build this base (with the average comfortable pace/500m) continuing to rise ? My goal (for now) is to do a 6:59 2k by the end of this year. Maybe that shows how ignorant I am, although I realize it would be a huge feat being my age and never rowed until now.

I agree with what Mike said. You will benefit from a more structured approach, if for no other reason, it'll be easier to filter out what works and what doesn't.

Given your background it looks to me that your base needs sharpening not building, which will happen fairly quickly, assuming you've stayed active over recent years? Technique is vital, so keep concentrating on it every time you get on the erg.

30k a day may be good for you, but that is a huge amount, so it may also be detrimental to your recovery. I'd probably be aiming for about 70-80k a week at the moment, with a view to increasing it if you feel capable. Doing longer distances isn't an end in itself, but only a means to an end, so you may find a tipping point of efficiency, albeit it can sometimes masquerade as fatigue even when you're making progress (something I'm sure you're very familiar with from your cycling background).

Moderate pace for intervals is good, and then you can keep ramping it up. Something that the Pete Plan will be able to give you as a detailed guide.

You highlight many great points. Sure, I have a huge base..I ran a 4:55 mile at 12 years old...4:18 @ 15 years...broke the US Junior 25 mile TT cycling record after a few months of cycling.
However, I don't have a base in rowing (specific muscle adaptation). I guarantee you the mitochondria in my upper body are asking " what the hell is going on here to require all this working overtime" lol !
The tempo work that I have"pretty much only done"has translated into 8-10 x 500 @ 1 min recovery going from a death march @ just over 2 to a very comfortable 1:55-6 ish this week. In fact, I know I could have gone 1:50 if I really wanted to bury myself. I also do some "all out" short efforts at the end of every day up to 500m after I've disconnected the Ergdata. I did my fastest 500 this evening @1:35 ... could have gone 1000m @+/- 1:40 pace .
The above is what I am using to verify that the tempo stuff actually is working to some degree. Nevertheless, I am twitching " like a thoroughbred at the Kentucky Derby" waiting for the gate to open to "up the game on the sharpening," as you say.
I also want to express my thanks to you, once again for your encouragement and generosity in my new adventure.
Many Thanks,
John