Old man coming back to Indoor rowing.

[old wobbler]

Way back in the 1990's I used to frequent the gym and of course the Concept 2 rower!!! Started out on Model B and then onto model C's. Gave up going to the gym in 1994!!!!

Last month after advice from my surgery I have bough a 2nd hand rower.

At 63, I am nowhere near as fit as my 31 year old self. Thats for sure. I used to sit on a rower knocking out 2000m every 10 minutes for an hour hardly breaking sweat. So my goal now is to see how close I can get to that without dying of a heart attack. Heart rate monitor synced to the PM5, heart rate zones sorted (what did we do without all these gadgets back in the 1990's?)

Other than the heart rate, number of meters per stroke and splits are all I look at on the PM5.

What other data should I be looking at on the PM5 to assist my training?

I still have to work out building interval sessions on my phone or the PM5, how to get the spikey graph a bit smother and raise my stroke rate from 18-22 it is now.

All a work in progress.

Be interested to hear peoples thoughts.

[MPx]

Welcome back Wobbler! You stopped about three years before I started - a different world back then in the '90s. Not only no internet but not even an electronic log. I kept all of my stats in a spreadsheet (manually typed in until I bought a PM2+ which could be cable linked to a PC for CSV download). We then sent in the season bests to Concept2 in time for their annual (printed) publication which was equivelent of the Rankings that we now have.

If you were churning out hour long sessions you were certainly fit enough...but 2:30 pace for a 30 year old is quite slow - although you haven't shared your physiology. Short/medium/tall? Light/heavy? Some of us on here are older than you and faster than 2:30 steady state, so its not an age thing that's going to stop you getting back to a 12k hour - but there's any number of other things that might. First thing would be to make sure you've remembered the correct form for a good strong stroke. Plenty of videos available now to demonstrate and you can even take one of yourself to compare and iron out the things you don't realise you are or aren't doing!

Ease yourself back in gently. Give yourself time to improve. Are you just looking to be abe to complete lengthy aerobic sessions or do you have any other goals? Performance/Times/Distances? Let us know and keep us posted on progress.

[old wobbler]

Thanks for the reply MPx.

Yes, uuummmmm...........

Back in the 1990's the gym I went to did a 2,500 meter challenge league. I could never get any faster than 9.50's in my prime and fittest on that distance.

OK. I am 5'10'', heavyweight (18 stone,) with wrecked knees from sport (specialists don't want to operate yet) wrecked right shoulder and a slight dicky neck. (I broke it back in the 1980's.)

I am sadly type 2 diabetic and the aim is for the rower to help me do the exercise that doesn't hurt or put major impact on my knees. I gave up sport 10 years ago (cricket and time trialing) when my knee went. Sitting around eating crisps and fizzy pop is not great for the body I have found. Hence my predicament.

Rowing stroke on the machine is OK. Bit short on the leg phase due to the knee injury. Might need to work on the hip movement as I seem a little too upright. Rowing stroke I can row nicely with a 10 meter stroke length. I can hold a 2-40 pace for 30 minutes in a high zone 3 work out. 2-30 pace I am into Zone 4 but can do 30 minutes. Sprint wise I can hold 2-10 for 10 minutes but I am a blob of jelly after. I pushed it to 1-47 pace for a minute and knew it was a bridge too far. I started rowing on the 6th February and have rowed every day between 10 to 37 minutes at the moment.

Rower is set with 134 drag. New rollers on the seat base, chain is fine and the fan is clean. Rower came without a monitor hence the new Pm5 on it now.

[H2O]

Watt per stroke = Watts / (strokes per minute) gives you some indication of the power applied at each stroke. If this is very low, it is an indication of inefficiency or technical mistakes. At your age, starting from a low level of fitness, 5W per stroke is a target you could shoot for. Top of the line 2K rowers at that age will likely deliver 11 - 12W per stroke. For me, quite a bit below top level 2K rowing at age 65-70, 7W per stroke is recovery, 8W per stroke reasonable long distance, 10W per stroke hard, only 1K.

[old wobbler]

Watt per stroke = Watts / (strokes per minute) gives you some indication of the power applied at each stroke. If this is very low, it is an indication of inefficiency or technical mistakes. At your age, starting from a low level of fitness, 5W per stroke is a target you could shoot for. Top of the line 2K rowers at that age will likely deliver 11 - 12W per stroke. For me, quite a bit below top level 2K rowing at age 65-70, 7W per stroke is recovery, 8W per stroke reasonable long distance, 10W per stroke hard, only 1K.

OK. Where do you see this data on the PM5? I have no idea what Watt I am doing so cant give you an answer as to what I am doing.

[old wobbler]

OK. Looking at the Concept 2 app on the phone, Log book shows my row for the 24.2.25.

Time:- 30 minutes.
Distance 5903 meters
Average pace 2.32.9/500m
Splits are all in the 2.32-2.33 per 5 minutes.

Ave stroke 20
Ave power 98 watt
Drag 133

Is that poor?

Sorry, I really do not understand what the data is showing me. I just row on the machine.

If I am correct 20/98= 4.9 so am I right in thinking that means I was rowing at an average of 4.9 watts a stroke? Did I get that right?

Looked at some of my other rows on the Concept 2 app and its been as low as 49 watts for 20 strokes in Zone 1 up to 19 strokes and 86 watts. There is one with 100 watts and 19 strokes but only the one.

[Tsnor]

Heart rate monitor synced to the PM5, heart rate zones sorted (what did we do without all these gadgets back in the 1990's?)

Heart rate zones are usually set using your maximum heart rate. Maximum HR does not change with level of conditioning and so is a nice anchor for zones.

Sometimes people accidently use age-based population average heart rate maximums as their own personal max HR. (The old 220-age formula for example). Your actual max HR could easily be 10 or 20 beats/min higher or lower than the population average just like your weight can be very different than population average.

HR zones based on an incorrect max HR are worse than no HR zones at all. You'll be at no load and your HR will be above the zone. Or you will be puffing away thinking you are doing an easy workout. If you do HR zone training (which is excellent) please do find your own max HR.

(It's telling that zones are never set based on Age. If Age accurately predicted max HR then knowing your age would tell you your HR zones).

[Tsnor]

OK. Looking at the Concept 2 app on the phone, Log book shows my row for the 24.2.25.

Time:- 30 minutes.
Distance 5903 meters
Average pace 2.32.9/500m
Splits are all in the 2.32-2.33 per 5 minutes.

Ave stroke 20
Ave power 98 watt
Drag 133

Is that poor?

Sorry, I really do not understand what the data is showing me. I just row on the machine.

It's excellent. You are not sitting on the couch, you are doing 30 minutes of what most health institutions would call "intense" exercise. You are correctly ramping up. You will be faster and able to row longer in 6 months, and even faster a year later. You'll see a large body composition change in 4-6 weeks if you keep this up 3 or more times a week or blend rowing with other activity (walking, cycling, etc.)

IMO the only thing to look at right now is videos on technique so you don't get muscle memory of poor technique. And focus on whatever music, videos, audio books you need to keep you going doing 30-45 minutes.

[H2O]

Ave stroke 20
Ave power 98 watt
Drag 133

You got 98 / 20 = 5 watt per stroke.

To see the watts on the PM5 monitor , press the UNITS button, until it displays watts (the alternatives are splits [= time per 500m, looks like 2:20] or time elapsed.
Drag 133 is slightly high and you decrease this by moving the lever on the fan down.
To see exactly what drag you have, you select "More options" in the main menu on the PM5 monitor, then select "Display drag factor".
You have to row and then you see the current drag factor.
This drag factor is influenced not only by the position of the lever but also by how dusty the fan is (more dust, less air intake, lower drag) and to a lesser degree by air temperature and humidity. That's why the pros display the drag factor to set it exactly to where they want to have it.

My recommendation is to push the lever down all the way and row on lowest level since at your fitness level this allows you to control the resistance over the greatest range simply by how fast you accelerate the pull. The stroke should feel smooth and lot labored.
Note that even monstrously strong rowers will only be at drag 130-140 and they can pull 18+ watts per stroke.

[H2O]

Ave stroke 20
Ave power 98 watt
Drag 133

Is that poor?

No it is not poor, you are on for 30 minutes and stroke rate is right. I would even slow it down to 18 strokes per minute. But 20 spm is in the ball park.
You have already avoided some mistakes.

[reuben]

At 63, I am nowhere near as fit as my 31 year old self.

At 67, neither am I. My triathlon days are looooooong gone. I'm an erging newbie like yourself. Welcome to the Pleasure Dome.

how to get the spikey graph a bit smother

Technique. Pick drills. Personally, I don't get near enough out of my legs, and my legs to hips/arms tends to have a hiccup, as shown by the force curve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ura2mFCdvVs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LperycNwlFw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ykhggcbJrY

and raise my stroke rate from 18-22 it is now.

18-22 strokes/minute (spm) is generally strength, concentrating on technique. Higher rates are more cardiovascular/endurance. Both are good. Two sides of the same coin.

Time:- 30 minutes.
Distance 5903 meters
Average pace 2.32.9/500m
Splits are all in the 2.32-2.33 per 5 minutes.

Ave stroke 20
Ave power 98 watt
Drag 133

Is that poor?

Should that be "Splits are all in the 2.32-2.33 per 500 meters"?

You are what you are, or as that great philosopher Popeye said, "I yam what I yam." You're fine.

[MPx]

... and have rowed every day between 10 to 37 minutes at the moment.

This is great and what is going to work for you long term. If you can stay motivated to keep doing it your health and fitness will improve. Weight wont necessarily change as that is controlled by inputs more than exercise - but exercise increases metabolism as well as directly burning (a few) calories so it deffo helps, unless it gives you the motivation to eat more!

If you've got a leg movement restriction due to knees and maybe can't get to 11 o'clock (forward hip rotation) at the catch if there's belly in the way then its likely your stroke length is quite short. You can't really do anything about that. Its mainly a function of how tall you are and is what it is, although over the long term with weight loss it may improve a little. The bigger thing to work on is maximising the power that you can put out through your legs. You already know that the erg is great in not causing impact and not even being weight bearing so is ideal exercise for those with "shot knees".

The machine is very honest - it doesn't lie and it doesn't offer much in the way of quick wins. But if you can find an approach that keeps you coming back for more, then over the long term (months/years) it really will make a big difference to what you can do in your life. Best of Luck

[Nomark]

Should that be "Splits are all in the 2.32-2.33 per 500 meters"?

I think he means he did 30 minutes, split into 5 minutes on the screen and each one was within 2:32-2:33 which is great consistency.

Some very good advice already here. Your times are good enough to suggest you have the technique pretty much down but a check against online "ideal" videos never hurts. If you are trying to get back to your earlier paces then just see if you can take a fraction off your times every week. Even 0.1s/500m will add up over time. Or add a couple of minutes every week at your current pace if you want to build up to an hour again. Or a bit of both. The main thing is to understand your body and how it feels. Too much/ feeling too wiped out after a session - rein it in next time. And vice versa.

Rowing is a great sport that rewards consistency and steady improvement, put in the time in the seat and your times *will* fall.