Analyze and improve my form

[Fit4Life]

Long story short, I've been using the erg. And using it with the intent to have the most accurate form in order to get the most efficient workout.
I'm not racing, or sprinting or training for any specific event. I've watched videos, I've even went to Row House a few times particularly to receive a critique on my form, to ensure I'm not making any glaring errors. With 2 different trainers there I've been told my form is fine and to keep it up.

I got the ergatta attachment and decided to use the AI form analysis and after moving the erg to a room where there are table and such to hold the ipad and yadda yadda yadda, I cant get my form passed 78%. It'll say "upper body leaning backwards at the catch" "back swinging too early" "insufficient body swing from hips"* this was after I corrected "excessive lean back after leg drive" to from 15% to 0. I lean back, but now its indicating I'm leaning back at the catch.

My intent is to get some input from users, and even go to a local rowing club and get some feedback from instructors that aren't selling sessions and packages (now disrespect to Row House, its fun, its a good workout with good people).

I'll keep working out, because its a good workout, and I want to start completing programs, however, I don't want to normalize bad habits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjfAv97I72Y

Any feedback will be acknowledged and implemented. Thanks in advance.

(I apologizeI dont know why the youtube won't embed and tips on that and i'll fix that as well)

[Dangerscouse]

IMHO, I wouldn't worry too much about what it says as I can't see much wrong with it at all, and we all have idiosyncrasies that aren't wholly correct, but they still work.

FWIW, I've seen quite a few very fast ergers with terrible technique or a few notable flaws. I know my technique isn't perfect, but I don't mind as I'm not bothered about perfection.

[Joebasscat]

Have to agree with what Dangerscouse has said. Unless there are glaring issues that might subject you to injury, just carry on. I did notice a little drop in your hands on the recovery that’s not necessary. Some use that as a cue to keep the knees down, but otherwise just extra movement. Not a big deal.

[Fit4Life]

IMHO, I wouldn't worry too much about what it says as I can't see much wrong with it at all, and we all have idiosyncrasies that aren't wholly correct, but they still work.

FWIW, I've seen quite a few very fast ergers with terrible technique or a few notable flaws. I know my technique isn't perfect, but I don't mind as I'm not bothered about perfection.

Have to agree with what Dangerscouse has said. Unless there are glaring issues that might subject you to injury, just carry on. I did notice a little drop in your hands on the recovery that’s not necessary. Some use that as a cue to keep the knees down, but otherwise just extra movement. Not a big deal.

I appreciate both of your responses. As for the recovery I might've been thinking too hard and going too slow. Especially trying to break it down for the app. I can't say that it truly felt natural.

As for the AI coaching that it has, it's very limited in the beta status. You can row for a long as you like then it just gives you a percentage based off what they identify as form issues. So if you row for 30 minutes do 500 strokes there's no graph or chart that says what was identified as wrong or where, no real time indicators to say which reps were good and which need improvement. And even if you do 10 strokes, it's still the same.

When you record yourself or someone watches you, you can review or be told what's wrong, in real time and make changes. This kind of just ball parks it.

Im sticking with 10,000 meters a day, mixing it up, finding comfort at different strokes rates and maintaining them, doing intervals working within heart rate zones.

It's work, and it works if you do it. This ai coaching isn't valid enough to be discouraging. It's a little frustrating, being as I haven't hit the adjustments to boost those metrics. Unless they continue working with it and implementing other options of feedback, unless someone truly has some glaring issues which it could acknowledge and improve, it might be an app flop.

I don't think it's worth discarding real workouts and programs just to get a piece of an app to work.

[Sandeman]

First of all: I'm probably worse
What the app didn't mention is your hands being a bit too low at the catch. If you raise them a bit higher you might get a better connection.
I think you're about 5-10 cm too low, I can't see it very well (that's 2-4 inches in weird units )

[Sakly]

First, I echo Stu, fully agree.
Second, Joebasscat mentioned the low hands on recovery. I do the same, as I find it gives my shoulders some relaxation and less load over time.
Third, absolutely agree to Sandeman, your hands are too low at the catch and it creates slack. This was the very first observation I had.

Another factor I see, your drive phase seems weak and slow. Probably it is, because you wanted to look good for the video and do it all right, but a slow drive phase will not give the flywheel a proper acceleration, so your training stimulus and recorded speed will be low. Try a fast drive phase with a relaxed and slow recovery.
Probably your grip on the handle is a bit too tight. It looks like you are gripping it like a bar for a pullup. I would suggest to use your fingers like hooks on the handle. That will not burn out your forearms during longer pieces and tension in shoulders and biceps is typically released a bit, which gets more important, when you hit a harder drive phase.

[iain]

Agree with Sakly, little to add. But you should try and develop a consistent stroke whether measured by data or the force curve. I find I pull some poor strokes and see the difference by change in split so I can monitor my performance real time.

[Sandeman]

I find I pull some poor strokes and see the difference by change in split so I can monitor my performance real time.

Haha so true!
Regularly when I'm getting tired I suddenly remind myself: Sit up straight old man!
And without any extra effort the time/500m drops by a few seconds

[ahooton]

It’s very tidy. I’m guessing because you are going quite slow to show form it all seems a bit jerky. When you speed up I’m sure it will all become a more fluid motion. Low hands have already been mentioned.

The main thing I can see you are starting backswing as soon as you begin your drive. Try not to do this. It’s fractions of a second but the first 50% of the drive is most efficient when just legs are powering, then back swing kind of takes over carrying on the momentum into the the arms for finish. I did the same thing and I actually found when putting high power strokes in this tidied itself up.

Looking good though mate and good for you!

[Fit4Life]

First, I echo Stu, fully agree.
Second, Joebasscat mentioned the low hands on recovery. I do the same, as I find it gives my shoulders some relaxation and less load over time.
Third, absolutely agree to Sandeman, your hands are too low at the catch and it creates slack. This was the very first observation I had.

Another factor I see, your drive phase seems weak and slow. Probably it is, because you wanted to look good for the video and do it all right, but a slow drive phase will not give the flywheel a proper acceleration, so your training stimulus and recorded speed will be low. Try a fast drive phase with a relaxed and slow recovery.
Probably your grip on the handle is a bit too tight. It looks like you are gripping it like a bar for a pullup. I would suggest to use your fingers like hooks on the handle. That will not burn out your forearms during longer pieces and tension in shoulders and biceps is typically released a bit, which gets more important, when you hit a harder drive phase.

Solid advice. My only option is to try the 'ai coach' at full speed, maybe go at at a natural pace for 3 minutes and allow it to use its algorithm.

I've learned my lesson about gripping too hard. It just makes your hands tired and through the chain, your arms, your shoulders, your neck and or back. It is just a waste of energy. You learn that when you ride road bikes or train to do pullups.

Agree with Sakly, little to add. But you should try and develop a consistent stroke whether measured by data or the force curve. I find I pull some poor strokes and see the difference by change in split so I can monitor my performance real time.

You are right. The force curve is right tool.

It’s very tidy. I’m guessing because you are going quite slow to show form it all seems a bit jerky. When you speed up I’m sure it will all become a more fluid motion. Low hands have already been mentioned.

The main thing I can see you are starting backswing as soon as you begin your drive. Try not to do this. It’s fractions of a second but the first 50% of the drive is most efficient when just legs are powering, then back swing kind of takes over carrying on the momentum into the the arms for finish. I did the same thing and I actually found when putting high power strokes in this tidied itself up.

Looking good though mate and good for you!

I'll watch for the back swing. I think "playing the app" threw a wrench into things. If I do it again, it'll be when the week is done after my trainings and goals are met. I have no choice but to do it full speed at a normal pace.

Thank you all for the feedback.

[Dangerscouse]

My only option is to try the 'ai coach' at full speed, maybe go at at a natural pace for 3 minutes and allow it to use its algorithm.

That's worth doing as I suspect it will be better at full speed and being more natural