Question on incremental training pace

[p_b82]

Hi folks,

Based on the c2 training guide (page 75) - I've actually found that my steady state has fallen right into the UT2 suggested pace for my current 2k (~2:14/500m). My HR runs a bit hot compared to some - I get very little cardiac drift at that pace so it is sustainable for long sessions, so suggests it's about right.

In order to aim towards a faster 2k time (and the mythical for me currently sub7) I will need to up that SS pace to around 2:00 r20-22 as per the table.

I'm unsure which would be more beneficial over the longer term:

• To increase steady state by say 10W and keep at that until HR settles again, then increase it by another jump; rinse repeat

or

• To gradually aim to hit the target pace, slowly increase the distance it can be done and let the HR catch up with it as it will

Net result is ultimately the same - and i expect the answer will actually be "a bit of both" but curious on a wider consensus's opinion.

I know there's lots of training plans that handle this via small incremental gains; but i haven't always dealt with the rigidity very well, and the FM plan I followed I think was a factor in my post FM slump so I'm a little wary of heading down that route too early on this journey.

[Dangerscouse]

I know there's lots of training plans that handle this via small incremental gains; but i haven't always dealt with the rigidity very well, and the FM plan I followed I think was a factor in my post FM slump so I'm a little wary of heading down that route too early on this journey.

I think you've answered your question already Peter. The best plan is the one you enjoy and keep doing, so be honest with yourself and do whatever you need to do.

I'm slightly dubious about HR, especially in your case, so I'd aim to use intuition and RPE and I'd be inclined to target training at the first option as I'm guessing that in the second option, rowing at a faster pace and then backing off will just ingrain bad habits. It works well if you row for a specific distance, rest then start again, but just random distances in a SS session will probably be detrimental if done too often.

[alex9026]

I don't use a HRM so I guess my point could be considered mute, but my principle remains the same...

For me, I want to get comfortable and familiar with rowing at X pace. I typically fall in line with a 2 - 3 second range for my SS work depending on how I feel, but my volume has never been particularly high so I would often be at the faster end. If I set out to do say 18k and I naturally start to slow at 14/15k, I'd call it a day. If I try to hold the pace, my rpe is too high for the purpose of the session, if I slow down I'm rowing slowly, under fatigue, and ime that isn't doing anything for my fitness either. I used the exact same approach in my running days, where my long session would be 16 - 20 miles, not km's...

On the flip side, I am a big fan of negative splitting the long stuff, where my opening km's may even be a split or two slower than my typical range, but I'd finish quicker. The average pace falls in line.

Not entirely sure if this has answered your question, but it's my $0.02 worth!

[iain]

I don't think that increasing SS pace is a very good way to improve 2k. It sounds as if your SS is at a reasonable level for hour+ sessions. Personally I also do shorter sessions about 5S/500M quicker (largely due to limited time &/or enforced days off following SS days). The biggest 2k improvements (at least in under 6 months) will come from faster sessions whether intervals or TTs. The paces suggested are to give guidance, but are written as a way to estimate appropriate SS pace from 2k not to indicate what SS pace needs to be achieved for a given 2k pace.

The "right" pace for SS is much discussed but not easily identified even with HRM. As stated above I believe that traditional "Zone 2" training has a place (ie at conversational levels), but how that relates to TT paces or even HR varies person to person and also depends upon how long the sessions are. BUt pushing harder on SS may compromise the harder sessions which I expect will slow progress.

[p_b82]

I think you've answered your question already Peter. The best plan is the one you enjoy and keep doing, so be honest with yourself and do whatever you need to do.

I'm slightly dubious about HR, especially in your case, so I'd aim to use intuition and RPE and I'd be inclined to target training at the first option as I'm guessing that in the second option, rowing at a faster pace and then backing off will just ingrain bad habits. It works well if you row for a specific distance, rest then start again, but just random distances in a SS session will probably be detrimental if done too often.

I think I probably didn't make my thoughts clear, if I did multi-paced pieces it would be more structured, but more of a "tomorrow I will do Xmins+10s" at this pace sorta scenario; rather than Oh today I'll see how long I can go and then slow down/stop.

I need to have a little more structure than that - even if things do look a bit random at times, there is usually some sort of underlying plan being vaguely stuck to!

I'm aware that going from ~140W to ~200W is not going to happen in the short term, as right now that would put things very much in the "fast as I possibly can go for not very long" position & break a bunch of PB's as I ticket that off at certain distances.

but I think I've just got to start rowing faster more consistently.... I've hit a plateaux of what's "easy to maintain" and so the hard work of taking the next jump looms & without the safety blanket of a specific plan, I'm going to have to just see how it goes I guess... (hence my mental musing here)

The paces suggested are to give guidance, but are written as a way to estimate appropriate SS pace from 2k not to indicate what SS pace needs to be achieved for a given 2k pace.

I don't think there's any real difference personally; one looks at it from a "you've done X so train and Y" viewpoint and the other is "Train at Y and you could Achieve X"
both are full of caveats - but imo the net result is ultimately the same.

[iain]

The paces suggested are to give guidance, but are written as a way to estimate appropriate SS pace from 2k not to indicate what SS pace needs to be achieved for a given 2k pace.

I don't think there's any real difference personally; one looks at it from a "you've done X so train and Y" viewpoint and the other is "Train at Y and you could Achieve X"
both are full of caveats - but imo the net result is ultimately the same.

I get what you are saying, but unless your SS is all your training, I suspect your 2k time will be dictated by the harder sessions and if you are only doing SS then progress will be slow. However I am not a fan of SS training so have never tried primarily SS training except for a few weeks coming back from a break or when suffering an injury or illness.