Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[iain]

After significant periods of inactivity, I find that my HR doesn't fit neatly into the "normal" bands. In particular I can get my HR up to 95% of maximum at modest perceived effort while when fairly fit, this would take a major effort and much longer time. I believe (sorry for the science bit for those who don't care about the "why") this is because my stroke volume drops and so my heart does less work in a beat. In addition the "threshold" beyond which oxygen debt accumulates can fall to as low as 75% of max that basically means any significant exercise is unsustainable longer term (think people incapable of climbing 4 flights of stairs without a rest). Personally I get through this by pushing well into AT at first. The BPP is structured with very modest targets for the earlier interval sessions so you don't need to be fully recovered for them at the suggested paces. So if you are still making rapid fitness gains nothing wrong with repeating the last couple of weeks at higher paces so that these can be continued for the longer distances along side harder intervals.

That said, 2:30 for someone of your weight is not at all bad. If you enjoyed the 6k, feel free to try and increase the pace, but if you are happy with this and don't like the discomfort of threshold rowing, nothing wrong with sticking to 2:30.

The key is that the plan is sustainable and enjoyable. If you were only doing the core 3 sessions, then the SS can be done a bit quicker as you have 48hrs to recover, while 5 sessions a week requires you to recover more quickly. The key is that you feel fresh for the interval sessions and want to do the sessions rather than drag yourself onto the erg.

Hope that makes some sense, but not all BPP participants have the same motivations, aims or wishes so there is no one answer!

[Dangerscouse]

By contrast, out of curiosity I rowed the 6k session today (week 7, day 4) at 2:20 splits. In doing so, I was probably in the AT zone (80-90% heart rate) for most of the time. I didn't feel completely exhausted after the session, but having a conversation wouldn't be possible either, so I suspect this is too fast for the steady state sessions and I better stick with the 2:30 pace?

It's easier said than done, especially as you've got some form of comparison starting in your head, but try to slow down to whatever pace is right for you, rather than the pace that you want it to be, and sometimes going slower is harder than going faster.

Having a conversation is a great way of knowing if you're pace is correct, but it's also based on your recovery. Training the slower and longer sessions are mainly aiming to get you prepared for the shorter & faster sessions, assuming that you want to keep testing yourself and getting faster. As Iain mentions, not everyone is interested in that, so it's more about what your ideal goal looks like.

[AndyH]

13.1 10000m – Again, try to improve on your average pace from the 10000m row last week. To ensure you are never in danger of not completing a session, set out at the same pace you achieved last time for the first three quarters or so of the row, and only then begin to speed up gradually.

Was focused more on keeping this as a UT2 workout that on pace.

Went out a couple seconds too fast again, forcing me to slow down a bit later...next time will see if I can start with a 2:26 pace and hold it....

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	HR
48:39.4	10,000m	2:25.9	113	687	19	137
9:34.3	2,000m	2:23.5	118	706	19	132
9:40.0	4,000m	2:25.0	115	695	19	139
9:46.9	6,000m	2:26.7	111	681	19	139
9:48.4	8,000m	2:27.1	110	678	19	138
9:49.9	10,000m	2:27.4	109	675	20	139

[Joris]

The key is that the plan is sustainable and enjoyable. If you were only doing the core 3 sessions, then the SS can be done a bit quicker as you have 48hrs to recover, while 5 sessions a week requires you to recover more quickly. The key is that you feel fresh for the interval sessions and want to do the sessions rather than drag yourself onto the erg.

Thanks for your answer.
I do all the sessions of the plan, ideally at five sessions a week, but if I don't get all the sessions done within the week I just pick up where I left off the following week.
And as you write, I try to mainly work hard at the interval sessions. And since, for now, it's still fairly easy to keep improving, the interval sessions are certainly still enjoyable.

That said, 2:30 for someone of your weight is not at all bad.

You mean as a lightweight I have a disadvantage? I thought this would be the case mainly for short distances, but not necessarily so for longer distances?

If you enjoyed the 6k, feel free to try and increase the pace, but if you are happy with this and don't like the discomfort of threshold rowing, nothing wrong with sticking to 2:30.

I don't really mind the discomfort of being in the AT zone but I want to avoid having to take a step back because of fatigue symptoms.

[Joris]

Training the slower and longer sessions are mainly aiming to get you prepared for the shorter & faster sessions, assuming that you want to keep testing yourself and getting faster. As Iain mentions, not everyone is interested in that, so it's more about what your ideal goal looks like.

Yes, I like the aspect of keep testing myself and getting faster.
But I'm also of the cautious type, so I don't want to pursue records blindly only to get quickly burned out afterwards.
After reading the above comments, I think my current intensities on both the steady state sessions and the interval sessions are fine and it's not a problem if the gap in split times between these type of sessions remains wide for the moment.

[iain]

BPP has relatively short distances compared with most rowing plans. I don't think that (in the absence of significant additional exercise or other limiting factors such as very poor nutrition or sleep) it risks over training. Just make sure that you take regular rest days. Larger people have more room for muscle and, as a power endurance sport, this makes a difference. The differences get lower as distances increase, but even over a Marathon heavy weights of equivalent fitness will be quicker. At 82% of the lightweight limit you are at a disadvantage to many lightweights in this regard although being taller than many lightweights will help (although extra neck length can be discounted and body length is a lot less helpful than longer arms & legs). There are many people who are rowing slower than you on this plan on the forum, so you don't need to worry too much and you are likely to getr significantly faster by the end of the plan.

As for fatigue, try it and see. If you find that you are not as quick or struggle more on the intervals, slow the SS a bit, otherwise you can continue at the higher pace!

[PleaseLockIn]

BPP has relatively short distances compared with most rowing plans. I don't think that (in the absence of significant additional exercise or other limiting factors such as very poor nutrition or sleep) it risks over training. Just make sure that you take regular rest days. Larger people have more room for muscle and, as a power endurance sport, this makes a difference. The differences get lower as distances increase, but even over a Marathon heavy weights of equivalent fitness will be quicker. At 82% of the lightweight limit you are at a disadvantage to many lightweights in this regard although being taller than many lightweights will help (although extra neck length can be discounted and body length is a lot less helpful than longer arms & legs). There are many people who are rowing slower than you on this plan on the forum, so you don't need to worry too much and you are likely to getr significantly faster by the end of the plan.

As for fatigue, try it and see. If you find that you are not as quick or struggle more on the intervals, slow the SS a bit, otherwise you can continue at the higher pace!

I agree with you! The BPP is not an intense plan - the Pete Plan can get intense and the Wolverine Plan is even more intense. In my opinion, as long as someone has an okay-ish base, and paces the BPP accurately, there should notbe any recovery days required as long as their nutrition, health and sleep are not poor.

Novice gains can be significant, especially in the first year. One can always progress faster than what the BPP recommends, but this should be taken cautiously to prevent burnout.

Week 3 Day 2: [2 x 2000m / 4min rest] – This will be the first time you’ve tried longer intervals with a reasonably long rest time. Not too dissimilar to the 5th sessions of weeks 1 and 2 if you attempted those, but the longer rest and slightly lower distance mean you can push the pace a little more. Still focus on technique and efficiency, but try to go about 2seconds faster pace than the 6000m session of a day or two ago.

9:04 at r24 and 9:04.x at r24, ~4 min rest. Pretty pleasantly surprised at my progress.

Week 3 Day 3: [6000m] – Again, aim for the same pace as your first 6000m session a few days ago. Don’t worry if these sessions feel harder some days and you don’t make your target. Many things can affect your performance from fatigue from previous sessions, to environmental conditions such as temperature, to hydration and nutrition. Any day you don’t perform so well, try to pinpoint anything you might have done differently, and note it down.

I aimed for 2:20.6 splits (~28:07x 6k) but subconsciously increased it to 2:19.8 (~27:58 6k) while maintaining decent-ish technique, and staying at r20. For almost all the session I could sing part of "Titanium" by Sia. Looping the same song is more effective for me than a playlist of many songs, as I know intuitively the more intense parts of the songs - which means even if I feel like I want to slack off, I dig in, hold on until the more intense part gives me more motivation.

Might as well relax and study for finals, but yeah... for Day 4 and 5 I will start conservatively and speed up later if comfortable, to avoid burnout. If I dig in harder while I am dehydrated and hungry, i can be ~2W/kg. Neither this nor my 6.4W-min stroke are great numbers, but any improvement is improvement.

When I am pretty hungry and dehydrated my weight is ~64kg but at that state my performance noticeably decreases. Exercising with a half full stomach is quite uncomfortable for me, so i exercise when a bit hungry. Any tips on getting it through? I obviously can't drink water during the erg sessions.

My technique is getting more natural. And if I hang in there for the entire BPP and make big gains, perhaps you can see this as a success story of only having ever rowed 2k before jumping directly into full BPP, and getting away with it. Only time will tell though.

[Nomark]

By contrast, out of curiosity I rowed the 6k session today (week 7, day 4) at 2:20 splits. In doing so, I was probably in the AT zone (80-90% heart rate) for most of the time. I didn't feel completely exhausted after the session, but having a conversation wouldn't be possible either, so I suspect this is too fast for the steady state sessions and I better stick with the 2:30 pace?

Welcome to the forum. I'm also a newbie and a similar age and lifestyle to you, albeit 5cm taller and 70lbs heavier! Currently on week 2.

I think you have some answers already, but from what I've read you only really need to worry about UT zones if you are a semi-pro or higher training for hours every day. In that case you need to do active recovery while still getting metres rowed otherwise you will burn out and maybe get injured. For the rest of us doing 3-5 sessions a week of less than an hour, we have plenty of time to recover between sessions. In fact slightly harder may be better for us to get more bang for our buck and maximise training. But with the caveat of "listen to your body". If you are particularly tired or sore one day take the day off or go very gently. Try and ensure you are in top shape for the all-out interval sessions, but the rest of them can be as easy or hard (within reason) as you like as long as you can finish them and are excited for the next one.

I took the Pete Plan quite literally at first and tried to go super slow at about 2.30, but found it hard to stick to and ended up at 2.25. This may even fall a couple of seconds as my technique improves and I am rowing at about 20 strokes/min at a comfortable pace in the low 2.20s this week. If I went for a target I think my pace would completely drip off and I'd end with very unnatural pauses at the end of each stroke. That being said I am toying with the idea of mixing up the stroke rate with less energy in each stroke just to vary the strength Vs aerobic ratio and keep things interesting.

I'm still enjoying the targets in the BPP and the progress I'm making but having a busy week to fit in workouts. Actually finding myself a little obsessive - "when will I fit one in tomorrow if I don't do today?" lol I've never been this keen on getting fit in my life. Long may it continue

[Nomark]

When I am pretty hungry and dehydrated my weight is ~64kg but at that state my performance noticeably decreases. Exercising with a half full stomach is quite uncomfortable for me, so i exercise when a bit hungry.

My technique is getting more natural. And if I hang in there for the entire BPP and make big gains, perhaps you can see this as a success story of only having ever rowed 2k before jumping directly into full BPP, and getting away with it. Only time will tell though.

Well done on the time improvements and sticking with it. Turning up is half the battle so anything else and you're winning.

I'm not sure I could listen to 1 song on a loop but it's an interesting idea. I have an upbeat, bass heavy mix I listen to for splits and an audiobook for SS. Currently listening to Atomic Habits by James Clear - hopefully it will sink in and I'll row everyday from here on in lol

I'm hoping my second interval run tomorrow will yield some improvement from last week as that will definitely help with motivation. I find they are the work outs I look forward to the most, and then (briefly) dread the most as I strap myself in!

Id definitely make sure you are well hydrated before starting a long run. Not as in chugging a pint and feeling sloshy, but just gently upping your intake for the hour or 2 before. Food shouldn't matter, but I hate exercising first thing on a completely empty stomach. It's too long after dinner. A few hours after breakfast or lunch is my preferred.

I'm also winging the BPP having never gone further than 2k before doing a couple of slow 3 and 4ks and then jumping into it last week. I think the ramp up should be fine. If you can do week 1, then you can do week 2 and so on.

[AndyH]

13.2 4 x 1000m / 3min rest – Slightly longer reps that the session in week 9 (or the optional session last week), but also the rest time is increased by a minute. Try to go for the same pace you managed in week 9, and your increased fitness should see you do a fast last rep!

Target 1:58.7 from week 9

This workout was a struggle from the first rep. Managed to hold the pace for the first 3, then completely blew up with 250m to go in the 4th interval. Had nothing left.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	HR
14:59.2	3,743m	2:00.1	202	995	27	174
3:57.1	1,000m	1:58.5	210	1022	27	172
r: 3:00	204m						
3:57.1	1,000m	1:58.5	210	1022	28	175
r: 3:00	146m						
3:57.4	1,000m	1:58.7	209	1020	29	177
r: 3:00	121m						
3:07.6	744m	2:06.0	175	901	27	175
r471m					

[iain]

PLI, while you can row BPP sessions 7 days a week, I'm not convinced that it is optimal. Remember the adage "you only get faster when you are resting". We are all different and olympic athletes typically row a session on their "rest" day (as opposed to 2 sessions one being hard or 3 SS sessions the other days), but they rest a good part of the rest of the time. I know that now in middle age with a modest base fitness that I am quicker after 2 days off than 1, so for me rest days are essential (although I am not on BPP and do 75min+ on SS sessions).

You do need to be careful with the pace suggestions for the BPP. It was designed for people who had not done significant erg training before and probably did not have an endurance sport background, so an element of newbie gains are built in with an assumed starting pace significantly slower than could have been achieved with the experience of training on the erg before and knowing what can be achieved! Hence the W2 suggestion that 750s can be done as quickly as 500s!

[Joris]

Week 7 Day 2: [7 x 500m / 2min rest] – " One more rep than you did for this session in week 1 (and possibly in the optional sessions in weeks 3 and 6). If you did the 6 x 500m session last week, aim for the same pace, but if you’ve not done this session since week 1, aim to be 1 to 2 seconds faster pace, but use your judgement as to whether this is too fast on the early reps."

I did the optional session in week 6 in which I did the first five sessions in 2:04 and the last session in 1:55.
Today I aimed for 2:02 and managed to achieve if for the first six sessions. The last session I achieved another 1:55 like last time.
All in all, very satisfied with the result because even with an extra session I could get the pace up in all but the last session.

Also, during the last session I recorded a max heart rate of 178. Since I'm currently using 179 (220-age) as my maximum heart rate, this number might be challenged in the near future. In any case, I do expect my real maximum heart rate to be a bit higher than the basic formula suggests, although I have no idea how much higher.

[iain]

during the last session I recorded a max heart rate of 178. Since I'm currently using 179 (220-age) as my maximum heart rate, this number might be challenged in the near future. In any case, I do expect my real maximum heart rate to be a bit higher than the basic formula suggests, although I have no idea how much higher.

I agree that you HRMax will be higher. The 7S/500m difference between rep 6 & 7 suggests that you were significantly below HRMax on the 6th and 2 min is not long enough to get close to maximum (for me at least) when starting from a recovered state. Typically on 8 x 500 r1' (so only partial recovery) I would typically be 4S/500m faster on the last with Rep 7 about 73-96% HRMax and Rep 8 being 77-97%, but we are all different.

[Joris]

Welcome to the forum. I'm also a newbie and a similar age and lifestyle to you, albeit 5cm taller and 70lbs heavier! Currently on week 2.

Yes I noticed, and this was in fact the last push for me to also start an account.

I think you have some answers already, but from what I've read you only really need to worry about UT zones if you are a semi-pro or higher training for hours every day. ...
Try and ensure you are in top shape for the all-out interval sessions, but the rest of them can be as easy or hard (within reason) as you like as long as you can finish them and are excited for the next one.

I've also read about this, but I felt it was more about whether you have to row your steady state sessions in zone 2 or in zone 3. Since I'm clearly not a semi-pro, I judged that zone 2 training isn't needed for me and therefore I tried to find a pace which I could hold on during the whole session within zone 3, without exceeding it and 2:30 splits seem to fulfill this criteria for me. More or less at least because in fact, at the end of a SS session my monitor even indicates regularly that I'm slighly in zone 4, but since I think that these heart rate bands, based on the simple 220-age formula, are a bit of an underestimate for me, I am willing to accept that for now.
It's also not that I find rowing at 2:30 boring. On the contrary, with a podcast on I get easily through the first part of the session without getting bored, and towards the second half of the session I can still sweat enough to feel like I had a good exercise. And each time the distance increases I see it as a new challenge to finish the session again within the targeted heart rate band. And for achieving that, I do need to focus on my technique, which keeps it interesting.

I'm still enjoying the targets in the BPP and the progress I'm making but having a busy week to fit in workouts. Actually finding myself a little obsessive - "when will I fit one in tomorrow if I don't do today?" lol I've never been this keen on getting fit in my life. Long may it continue

Same here!
Continuing to do sports 6 times a week (rowing, soccer and some complementary indoor biking when I have the energy and time left after rowing) will probably not be sustainable in the long run, but as long as I enjoy it I will try to keep up this pace.
And in the long run, I hope to maintain at least 3 or 4 sessions per week.

[Joris]

I agree that you HRMax will be higher. The 7S/500m difference between rep 6 & 7 suggests that you were significantly below HRMax on the 6th and 2 min is not long enough to get close to maximum (for me at least) when starting from a recovered state. Typically on 8 x 500 r1' (so only partial recovery) I would typically be 4S/500m faster on the last with Rep 7 about 73-96% HRMax and Rep 8 being 77-97%, but we are all different.

Thanks for your insights. I suppose that, as long as I don't focus too much on heart rate, there is no urgency to discover my true maximum heart rate?
And as the interval sessions will still increase a bit in frequency and I will become better at estimating how fast I can go during the first sessions without decline at the last ones, I will discover step by step how much higher my maximum heart rate can go?
Which do you think, is the best interval session to test max heart rate within the BBP plan?