Dark Horse Drag Factor Workout

[AndyH]

How long have your been erging ("long time" "new to 6 months")
How comfortable are you with your rowing form ("very", "i'm good I think", "not very")
Do you use a heart rate monitor ("yes, strap", "yes watch", "no")

Agree with Dangerscouse that whatever DF you normally use feels right. Other advice above also feels right (including that some people run fixed DF and some like to change DF often) Note I've been coached a lot, but I am not a coach. If you are new or not comfortable with your form then please focus on form and row for 6+ months at 115 or less DF before doing anything else. When ready maybe try an experiment like this...

Can you do a long-ish piece at light/medium load where your body hits steady state? Say 30 mins at a split where you are not panting ? Use that split. If you have a HR monitor use that in addition to your subjective feel. Subjective feel is important. HR will be a good cross check, as will alternating the DFs.

In one workout, consecutively:
5 mins at 100 DF, pull to hit the 30 minute split described above, record how you feel
5 mins at 140 DF, same split, record how you feel.
5 mins at 100 DF, same split, record how you feel.
5 mins at 140 DF, same split, record how you feel.
5 mins at 100 DF, same split, record how you feel.
5 mins at 140 DF, same split, record how you feel.

Since you'll be using the display DF function and moving the damper between each 5 minute piece, use single-time or just-row for the 5 min workout.

You may find you like 100 and 140 equally. If so suggest you set at 110-115.
You'll may like either 100 or 140 better. Then do the same thing between "100 and 120" or "140 and 120"
That should get you very close to your preferred DF. Based on everything I've read there is no efficiency change between any of these DF settings, so this is all about comfort and injury avoidance.

How long have your been erging ("long time" "new to 6 months"): I've been erging for just a few months now, so definitely new. I also joined a local on the water rowing club and have gotten some very good coaching on stroke rate, form, etc.

How comfortable are you with your rowing form ("very", "i'm good I think", "not very"): I think form is good but there's always of course room for improvement.

Do you use a heart rate monitor ("yes, strap", "yes watch", "no"): Yes - strap

With all of the input from this thread, I'm leaning towards leaving the DF at 120, at least for now, and bumping it up to around 130 for the Beginner Pete Plan speed intervals (500s, 800s, 1000s).

I like the idea of the steady state workout at varying DF and bracketing the setting towards what feels best.

Thanks again!

Andy

[Sakly]

I don't know the workout, but now being 2 1/2 years on the rower, I adjust the DF frequently based on my muscular fatigue of the day. If I feel strong and recovered, I like higher DF like ~120. Feeling a bit of fatigue from gym the other day, I also like to set DF to ~100. Both values are fine for me on longer, low rate rows, like an hour or HM. For shorter stuff on higher rates, like 2k or 3x6min I did yesterday, I set DF to 130-140. Sprint stuff even higher, otherwise I cannot get the splits down, as I am a relatively slow athlete.

Thanks - you use 140+ for 500 - 1000 intervals?

For my last 8x500 and 4x1000 I used drag of 124, but both were at the end of my gym session, so with already high fatigue.
The 3x6mins were at 127. All these values are a bit random, as I evaluate the drag which feels good during my warmup. In warmup for shorter stuff I bump up the lever step by step and pull some strokes to get a feel how it goes for the day. Sometimes I land on 127, other days on 135 or 140. It's not like I go into menu to read the DF explicitly to set it to a specific value. This happened very rarely.

[jamesg]

figure out what's best for me?

The best thing for all of us when rowing or erging, is to pull a good stroke using the legs. We may need that stroke later when racing; in the meantime it gets us fit.

When erging, this is done by training at low rates, 18-24, but, much later, racing with the same stroke or close, at 30-34.

So we set the pull time that makes both possible. It works out that 0.6s pulltime is a good compromise, both at low rates (60/5*0.6) = rate 20) and high rates (60/(3*0.6) = rate 33).

Given our highly variable weight, ages and sexes, on the C2 ergometer we can all find the force level that satisfies this need, simply by adjusting drag. What our aim is, in adjusting drag, makes no difference; the real effect is what counts.

Afloat we don't get that option; we do it or walk. I had to give up my shell when I found she wouldn't move any more; on erg, no prob: DF 90.

All the numbers can be seen in Ergdata.

[Tsnor]

... I've been erging for just a few months now, so definitely new. I also joined a local on the water rowing club and have gotten some very good coaching on stroke rate, form, etc.

SUPER. OTW rowing is tons of fun and good coaching will greatly reduce any risk of back/wrist/etc. problems

Do you use a heart rate monitor ("yes, strap", "yes watch", "no"): Yes - strap

Strap best for rowing! Do look into zone training if you haven't already (e.g. pyramid or polarized training). Lets you push with limited risk of overreach/overtraining, gives a framework how to intermix different sports/training and it's perfect for rowing. Say if you want links to info

With all of the input from this thread, I'm leaning towards leaving the DF at 120, at least for now, and bumping it up to around 130 for the Beginner Pete Plan speed intervals (500s, 800s, 1000s).

FWIW I use 115 because that's what I think Eric Murray uses and is supposed to be the feel of an 8 and I row OTW too. I doubt I could tell the difference between 115 and 120. Bumping DF for speed interval training is fine, but I don't. If I was erg racing and wanted best time in interval I would.

I like the idea of the steady state workout at varying DF and bracketing the setting towards what feels best.
Andy

Excellent. Also recommend a good bluetooth sport earbud (I use ones with ear hooks) and music or audio books or "kindle reading to you" or... to make those long pieces go fast. GL and enjoy.

EDIT: Also on DF OTW.... When the shell is stopped and you start it moving feel the pull on the oar. HUGE drag factor. Most coaches want you to go easy on the first few strokes to avoid washing out and avoid injury. As the boat picks up speed the oar handle DF drops. Once you hit steady state at high speed (say after 30 strokes of a 500 meter piece) the oar DF will feel very light and you'll need to be VERY quick on the drive to put down power. (And if the other guys get tired and you're doing a larger percent of the work all of a sudden the boat feels really heavy - higher oar DF). So rowing at different DF is not a bad thing, you do it OTW all the time.

[AndyH]

... I've been erging for just a few months now, so definitely new. I also joined a local on the water rowing club and have gotten some very good coaching on stroke rate, form, etc.

SUPER. OTW rowing is tons of fun and good coaching will greatly reduce any risk of back/wrist/etc. problems

Do you use a heart rate monitor ("yes, strap", "yes watch", "no"): Yes - strap

Strap best for rowing! Do look into zone training if you haven't already (e.g. pyramid or polarized training). Lets you push with limited risk of overreach/overtraining, gives a framework how to intermix different sports/training and it's perfect for rowing. Say if you want links to info

I'm very accustomed to training with HR zones and polarized training from some time doing triathlons years ago. I've been following the Beginner Pete Plan, so doing mostly UT2/UT1 pieces with the occasional AT and anaerobic speed intervals. Really enjoying it. Well thought out plan IMO. Planning on doing the Pete Plan via Rowalong next, although that could certainly change by the time I'm done with the current plan.

With all of the input from this thread, I'm leaning towards leaving the DF at 120, at least for now, and bumping it up to around 130 for the Beginner Pete Plan speed intervals (500s, 800s, 1000s).

FWIW I use 115 because that's what I think Eric Murray uses and is supposed to be the feel of an 8 and I row OTW too. I doubt I could tell the difference between 115 and 120. Bumping DF for speed interval training is fine, but I don't. If I was erg racing and wanted best time in interval I would.

I like the idea of the steady state workout at varying DF and bracketing the setting towards what feels best.
Andy

Excellent. Also recommend a good bluetooth sport earbud (I use ones with ear hooks) and music or audio books or "kindle reading to you" or... to make those long pieces go fast. GL and enjoy.

Agreed! We have a home gym wired for sound, so I generally row to 80's hair music

EDIT: Also on DF OTW.... When the shell is stopped and you start it moving feel the pull on the oar. HUGE drag factor. Most coaches want you to go easy on the first few strokes to avoid washing out and avoid injury. As the boat picks up speed the oar handle DF drops. Once you hit steady state at high speed (say after 30 strokes of a 500 meter piece) the oar DF will feel very light and you'll need to be VERY quick on the drive to put down power. (And if the other guys get tired and you're doing a larger percent of the work all of a sudden the boat feels really heavy - higher oar DF). So rowing at different DF is not a bad thing, you do it OTW all the time.

Really good way of thinking about it!

Very helpful - thanks for the detailed reply!

[H2O]

We must be missing some details about this dark Horse workout. As described it does not seem to make much sense: e.g.
I can generate much more watts with 32spm on damper setting 2 than with 16 spm on damper setting 10. Also the distance generated will not be comparable between a 10 minute row and a 2 minute row.

In my experience I generate about the same Watts at the same stroke rate with drag factors 125-150 and on damper setting 10 (DF 210 on my machine) with 32spm the same Watts as 35spm with a DF of 120. Of course this could be because I am much weaker than a young and fit rower (current 2K 7:17) but it is hard to believe that the suggested stroke rate increments (4 spm per 2 damper setting increments) make any sense.

A stroke rate increment of 4 spm is a pretty significant rampup.

[AndyH]

We must be missing some details about this dark Horse workout. As described it does not seem to make much sense: e.g.
I can generate much more watts with 32spm on damper setting 2 than with 16 spm on damper setting 10. Also the distance generated will not be comparable between a 10 minute row and a 2 minute row.

In my experience I generate about the same Watts at the same stroke rate with drag factors 125-150 and on damper setting 10 (DF 210 on my machine) with 32spm the same Watts as 35spm with a DF of 120. Of course this could be because I am much weaker than a young and fit rower (current 2K 7:17) but it is hard to believe that the suggested stroke rate increments (4 spm per 2 damper setting increments) make any sense.

A stroke rate increment of 4 spm is a pretty significant rampup.

Here’s a link to their video. He does mention is subjective and not purely about the numbers.

https://youtu.be/rySeSi93KYc?si=ot8vD-o7WR8gW5T7